[3.11] Shaper = Stunned, Tidebreaker Heavy Strike Stunner Build

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masterxkroxgk wrote:

Is the physical variant better than the ele one?

in my experience, the ele one is "better" over all.

the phys only one is a bit more budget, and allows easier for stun locking shaper only if thats your only goal

the aoe clear from HoA and flask uptime makes up for the slight dps change, and allows you to convert more damage to elements for chilling/freezing/shocking etc

the pure phys one is better on a budget, ignore unique flasks, go pure stunlocking potential etc

try both, see what fits ur budget and play style

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frawrst wrote:

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masterxkroxgk wrote:

Is the physical variant better than the ele one?

in my experience, the ele one is "better" over all.

the phys only one is a bit more budget, and allows easier for stun locking shaper only if thats your only goal

the aoe clear from HoA and flask uptime makes up for the slight dps change, and allows you to convert more damage to elements for chilling/freezing/shocking etc

the pure phys one is better on a budget, ignore unique flasks, go pure stunlocking potential etc

try both, see what fits ur budget and play style

Just a quick correction,

We don't crit and have 0% chance to ignite/freeze/shock, so we can't inflict freeze or shock at all. We are able to apply chill though, as it doesn't require a crit.

Chill prolongs stun duration, so it is a bit beneficial. Against Shaper, however, because only a small portion of our damage is cold damage, we can chill Shaper by around only 1-2%.

Thoughts on ryslatha's coil for the full phys version of the build?
Seems very strong.

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Internacjolog wrote:

Thoughts on ryslatha's coil for the full phys version of the build?
Seems very strong.

I almost responded "it's trash" before doing some math, and I think I almost overlooked it; Ryslatha's Coil after its 3.5 buff could be really good. Thanks for bringing it up.

According to my own PoB page, my maximum damage is 3.17 times more than my minimum. This high variance is caused by Tidebreaker.

Ryslatha's Coil gives 40% more to the maximum and 30% less to the minimum. So if we do the math, my maximum becomes 4.44, and my minimum becomes 0.7; the average now becomes 2.57 instead of 2.085. It's a 23% DPS boost for our build.

Sadly I find PoB hasn't yet implemented DPS calculation with this belt. So this DPS boost won't show up on PoB.

So it offers huge DPS boosts, but the stun capability boost isn't too good. The 15% r.E.S.T. on rare belts offers a stun capability boost equivalent to 23% DPS boost as well. Having a really big max to min damage range can hurt stunning once you're well-geared (it does help stunning if poorly geared).

One thing I need to mention here is that our non-physical damage also comes from phys damage, so this belt should work fully on the mixed damage version as well.

Overall, I think it's a very strong contestant. It is possible that I might recommend this as a prior choice, but I need to do more math and check its effects in-game before making such conclusions.

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brightwaha wrote:

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Internacjolog wrote:

Thoughts on ryslatha's coil for the full phys version of the build?
Seems very strong.

I almost responded "it's trash" before doing some math, and I think I almost overlooked it; Ryslatha's Coil after its 3.5 buff could be really good. Thanks for bringing it up.

Spoiler

According to my own PoB page, my maximum damage is 3.17 times more than my minimum. This high variance is caused by Tidebreaker.

Ryslatha's Coil gives 40% more to the maximum and 30% less to the minimum. So if we do the math, my maximum becomes 4.44, and my minimum becomes 0.7; the average now becomes 2.57 instead of 2.085. It's a 23% DPS boost for our build.

Sadly I find PoB hasn't yet implemented DPS calculation with this belt. So this DPS boost won't show up on PoB.

So it offers huge DPS boosts, but the stun capability boost isn't too good. The 15% r.E.S.T. on rare belts offers a stun capability boost equivalent to 23% DPS boost as well. Having a really big max to min damage range can hurt stunning once you're well-geared (it does help stunning if poorly geared).

One thing I need to mention here is that our non-physical damage also comes from phys damage, so this belt should work fully on the mixed damage version as well.

Overall, I think it's a very strong contestant. It is possible that I might recommend this as a prior choice, but I need to do more math and check its effects in-game before making such conclusions.

I did some testing and the in-game tooltip confirmed that it works for our elemental damage as well. The 50 life gain also works per enemy stunned, so it's a 500 life recovery if we hit 10 enemies at once.

This is indeed very very strong (a belt with 23.6% DPS boost and over 100 flat life). I just finished revising my guide and now it recommends Ryslatha's Coil as the top choice.

I want to thank you for reminding me of this. It was bad when it first got released, and I completely missed it when reading the patch notes.

Sure thing. Glad I could make a contribution, however small : )
Last time I played a proper stunboi was a couple of leagues ago, and I felt a sudden urge to do it again in Betrayal. Changes in 3.5 are all nice and I feel the build should be stronger than ever. As you pointed out - Ryslatha, aside from the dmg boost, provides great defensive capabilities as well.
Heavy strike stunboi double blaster is the choice of a true gentleman and a scholar. Hope it remains low key.

Great guide, great build. Keep on stunnin'.

Hey,thx for the guide. A couple of questions if you don't mind. I really want to try the pure phys version as I don't like elemental builds. All my builds are pure phys, but let's just say I am too afraid to try the berserker. Is slayer pure phys lacking in damage or shouldn't I be afraid of berserker cause of stun's safety?

Thanks in advance.

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Johite wrote:

Hey,thx for the guide. A couple of questions if you don't mind. I really want to try the pure phys version as I don't like elemental builds. All my builds are pure phys, but let's just say I am too afraid to try the berserker. Is slayer pure phys lacking in damage or shouldn't I be afraid of berserker cause of stun's safety?

Thanks in advance.

I would say that Berserker's defense and Slayer's DPS are not something you should be afraid of. Instead it's better to ask the question "do I want higher DPS while sacrificing my defense?"

I achieved stun-locking on Shaper with my pure phys version Slayer on 3.1 I think. That was 4 patches ago and now our DPS has doubled. With good gears you can now even attempt to stun-lock Shaper with a pure phys Slayer without popping flasks (chances are going to be maybe around 50% instead of 90%+, but still doable). So your DPS is more about the consistency of the stun-locking and your clear speed while mapping.

I have been mostly playing Berserker and I would say although Berserker has weaker defense, it's DPS can compensate for that. With the right flasks I can rush down Minotaur (stun immune) without moving, and I feel pretty safe while mapping as well.

I would say from my experience, the things I notice after switching from Berserker to Slayer is that, Berserker is much faster than Slayer, and Slayer is much tankier than Berserker. So the question really is, if you want higher mobility and DPS (which feels quite good), or do you want to be able to run maps, laid back, watching streams at the same time, knowing that you're unlikely to die anyways.

You also need to manually cast warcries as Berserker, which, isn't a big deal to me (feels like driving manual transmission cars), but certainly takes some time to get used to.

Thanks for the great guide! I had tried something similar as my first character this league, but I am not yet well-versed in the end game and felt like I had created an nonviable character. But your guide has helped me recover, and I am having a blast (and it only cost a couple dozen Orbs of Regret).

How do you feel that Earthquake, Ground Slam, and Sunder compare to each other for this build? At least as far as map clearing (I have a ways to go before worrying about stunning the Shaper)? I defaulted to Ground Slam because of the built-in rEST, and the handy Vaal version, but if the others have benefits that are less obvious, I'd love to hear your thoughts.

Thank you again for the great, comprehensive guide. Anyone can list their character build and post videos, but I REALLY appreciate guides which give the build's philosophy and suggest alternatives.

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TarzanConfused wrote:

Thanks for the great guide! I had tried something similar as my first character this league, but I am not yet well-versed in the end game and felt like I had created an nonviable character. But your guide has helped me recover, and I am having a blast (and it only cost a couple dozen Orbs of Regret).

How do you feel that Earthquake, Ground Slam, and Sunder compare to each other for this build? At least as far as map clearing (I have a ways to go before worrying about stunning the Shaper)? I defaulted to Ground Slam because of the built-in rEST, and the handy Vaal version, but if the others have benefits that are less obvious, I'd love to hear your thoughts.

Thank you again for the great, comprehensive guide. Anyone can list their character build and post videos, but I REALLY appreciate guides which give the build's philosophy and suggest alternatives.

It's really difficult to say anything useful regarding AoE skill choice. There isn't any objective measure and probably it's just best to test all the skills yourself. But I will give it a try.

This choice depends on quite a few things: your DPS, whether you have a secondary weapon for single-target, the type of maps you run, and what you feels satisfying, subjectively.

I would say if you don't have a secondary weapon or are too lazy to weapon switch, then Ground Slam is definitely a good choice. I am also using Ground Slam this league, and it's indeed very satisfying. Heavy Strike with Slayer splash is also very good; it offers really high DPS and stun capability.

If you have a secondary weapon for single-target, then Sunder is a good choice; it offers great AoE damage, especially in maps where mobs are clustered together. Although it lacks single-target DPS and stun capability. Some people also liked Tectonic Slam, but I feel it's quite lackluster.

If you're really well geared, Consecrated Path becomes a choice if you have good increased AoE area. Flicker Strike (probably only with Slayer or Ascendant) also becomes a choice once you have good enough DPS to sustain frenzy charges, but in low mob density maps it really sucks.

I don't see much reason to use Earthquake. You have to be really close to your target and wait 1 second until you can deliver good damage. It's really bad at stunning packs of mobs so it can be dangerous to use this in red maps.