[3.11] Shaper = Stunned, Tidebreaker Heavy Strike Stunner Build
" Berserker is a better choice when what you want is this Shaper stunning business. However, when it comes to actually killing a boss, Slayer isn't a bad choice either. Different boss fights can be completely different, and I would say Berserker might be better when fighting Uber Izaro, Chimera, Hydra, Shaper, etc. - bosses that won't fight back if they're stunned. Slayer is better when fighting bosses that spawn adds or cause constant degen or cannot be stunned (for example, Minotaur, Elder, etc.) I also see Slayer as the best choice for Uber Elder - if this build can kill Uber Elder at all. (Will probably test sometime later, but I am indeed very bad at dodging stuff so I am pretty sure I will fail my Uber Elder attempts.) I'm not using Sunder in the Slayer pastebin because I don't recommend using Sunder with a Slayer. Slayer clears faster with Heavy Strike (also better for single target) and that's one of the reasons to play Slayer to begin with. |
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Ah I see okayt then redblade is BIS if REST is THAT effective.
However I still have doubts about being a Slayer. I don't know how people get more clear with the Impact passive compared to Sunder. Sunder has so much more range and the HoA usually kills the pack after the Sunder hits like 1 creature anyway. The Juggernaut gives a lot less DPS and loses 5% REST but that tankiness you get in return sounds very attractive for those high tier maps where I sometimes get insta-ripped with 7k hp as a slayer. Last edited by silverdash on Mar 16, 2018, 5:00:16 AM
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" Heavy Strike, Impact, Ancestral Call, Multistrike and HoA creates a circular blast around us, with a radius equal to just about the radius of a large pack of mobs. So to clear with Heavy Strike one just need to leap to the center of a pack and oneshot the whole pack. Sunder creates 3 rectangular areas and is less reliable when you want to cover a whole pack of mobs, which is usually circular shaped. Heavy Strike also offers higher single target damage (for high health rares, beyond mobs, etc), more r.E.S.T., and less attack time (less time to perform one Multistrike). I know what I said above may not seem convincing, but you can test out both skills yourself and see how they perform. I used to clear with Heavy Strike before Ancestral Call came out and even then I was satisfied with its clear speed. If you happen to not like Heavy Strike (which is certainly possible, preference plays a big role here), then Sunder is the best choice for you. About Juggernaut, I did write a section about it in the guide, and I copied it over here. Thoughts on Juggernaut
Spoiler
Since the Juggernaut buff many people are hyped about trying it out as a stun build. However, I believe Juggernaut does not fit the overall theme of a stun build, and has a very mediocre power level. Unflinching and Unyielding have a ton of texts, and is the major reason people are hyped about Juggernaut as a stunner. However, if we look into it carefully, it offers only 4 things (counting 3 extra charges from the passive tree): massive endurance charge generation (which we don't need), 4% increased physical damage reduction (due to +1 charge), 3% more damage (due to ECoMS Support and +1 charge), 35% increased damage and 90% increased stun duration. How good are these bonuses? Very mediocre. This (Unflinching and Unyielding, 4 ascendancy points in total) is strictly worse than Slayer's Overwhelm, which only takes 2 ascendancy points (and is only an optional pick for Slayer). Then we look at Undeniable. This is the only solid reason to start a stun build with Juggernaut, and that is to build around crit. However, there is just a better crit build option and that's Champion. Champion makes taunted enemies cannot evade, and that's strictly better than the Undeniable node Juggernaut has. Even with Champion, it's hard to build up crit because Tidebreaker is a 5% crit chance mace, and there are not any mace passive wheels that offer anything related to crit. The other ascendancy notables, Unstoppable, Unbreakable and Unrelenting are all about speed and defense. They are not bad but doesn't fit too well with the theme of a stun build. The major problems with Juggernaut is that it offers very poor DPS, which is not good enough for the end game boss stun-locking business. And a stun build is the most effective when oriented around offense to cover its mediocre defense. If you take a look at the Berserker version of this build, it has 0% net regen, 10% increased damage taken, little armour and evasion, no block, poor leech. Yet my Berserker doesn't have any survival problems in any maps and can do all bosses except Uber Elder that I haven't tried. To be honest, if you die instantly in maps as a 7k hp Slayer, you're doing something wrong. It's not like we are wearing Abyssus or anything; if we have 7k hp, we have more than 7k effective hp. With this build no melee mobs should be able to deal any damage to you and there is no way that ranged attacks from ranged mobs can insta-kill you. This game has several one-shot skills that one should know how to avoid. Examples being the reflection aura from the Racecourse boss, bone nova from the Crypt boss, Slam from Malachai and so on. Those one-shot skills can easily deal more than 10k damage and besides those, most damage we take are less than 5k, which is certainly non-lethal. This is the reason that most builds stack up to 6k or 7k life, and they don't have any survival problems. |
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Just gonna chime in here and say, I'm playing the slayer variant with impact, Overwhlem and Leech path.
I clear using flicker+AC+meleephys+Multistrike intsead of sunder. 1 flicker usually is enough to kill everything on screen. With blood rage I don't have trouble sustaining frenzy charges My build is only at its early stage as I only have 5L kongors rage and some crap 800 armor astral plate, I capped my resistance but I'm squishy as hell at the moment. I have 4.5k Life at level 83 But I can clear up T9, I have HoA and Blasp+Vuln as mana reservation, but sometimes I trade in determination (yes) and swap Melee phys with fortify on flicker when a map is too dangerous. And even with flicker+AC+multi+Fortify, I can still pretty much oneshot an entire screen of trash on a T9 map. (was able to solo uberlab without much difficulty using this setup for more phys mitigation) The clear speed is very fast, And I only use leap slam to get through obstacles So far I'm playing smoothly but Im Planning on replacing my Chest with the Crab chest while I try to save for kaom. I was lucky to drop a Taste of hate and bought a Lion's roar so I have zero problems with damage. Any tips? My character name is ThePERMABASHER if someone is willing to help. :D Great Guide Btw! Last edited by patskie14 on Mar 17, 2018, 3:45:01 AM
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Hey all stunlockers!
I would like to share my experience and help if i can during your game play. This league i played the Slayer version. With better gear than last league (berserker version) i have to say that i am not satisfied with end game as a slayer. Stun locking Guardians was not happening just some random stuns,the dps is not enough even with the jar to get 20% more damage. While with berserker i could stun lock everything though i might die to shaper as with low dps the fight was dragging on leading to him escaping many times. So between slayer and berserker i vote 100% berserker end game. As i stated earlier i though of a version of this build with much higher dps utilizing the champion revamped ascendancy. here is the pastebin: https://pastebin.com/EcWnCkH6 I gathered some semi good items and with a mix from my tidebreaker slayer items i used some regrets to respect to that and test it as i finished all my challenges and was sitting with 30 ex to spend. I just wanted to stay that i killed shaper for the first time in my entire play deathless with 0 orbs on the ground. Ultra fast and he was stunned 99% of the time ( he escaped once but i felt cocky and didnt generate power charges + didnt used potions :D) For clear speed after testing lacerate / cyclone / flicker strike i found cyclone to be the most reliable making the mapping safer as i stopped dying randomly , i am thinking of buying another starforge 6 link and add Ecoms on setup for even easier mapping bth on dps-wise and survivability( i use a 5 link teminus now) I would love to hear your commends and feel free to indicate any improvements you might have. * Btw OP your suggestion of frenzy for generating power charges is working like a charm! Last edited by Cloud_69 on Mar 17, 2018, 7:10:07 AM
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" Flicker is definitely a viable option. I would suggest using Perseverance belt to gain Fortify and Onslaught for a better mapping experience (since with Flicker you won't gain Fortify by Leap Slam to packs). I generally suggest picking Headsman over Overwhelm, but I do see that you're lacking good stun capability from your current setup and Overwhelm can make Flicker much safer. Still, after getting more r.E.S.T. from your items, namely Tidebreaker and Redblade Tramplers, you may consider switching to Headsman. |
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" I am not sure why are you having problems with stun-locking Guardians as Slayer. Guardians have half the life pool compared to Shaper. If your Berserker (which deals maybe 30% more damage than Slayer) can stun-lock Shaper, then Slayer with better gears must be able to stun-lock Guardians very well. About the crit variation with Champion, I am actually surprised to hear that it turned out to perform very well. But are you really not using Ruthless Support on your Heavy Strike 6-link or was it just a temporary change?
Spoiler
I again used my simulation code to see your character's performance against Shaper. With your current setup the chance of perfect stun-locking is around 25%, which is pretty low (my own character without Tidebreaker corruption is around 80-90%). I switched on Ruthless Support and took out Damage on Full Life, this number went up to around 50%.
*In this calculation, I addressed the shock you apply to be 20%; this is obtained by calculating the ratio of a higher range crit against shaper's life pool. Let me assume here that not using Ruthless Support was a temporary change. And I also have a good theory to explain that you're having a better time stunning Shaper with your crit version compared to Berserker. 1. Berserker deals around 30% less DPS than your crit variant. This higher DPS can result in a shorter fight, leading to less possibilities for mistakes. Usually when stun-locking Shaper, a decision to be made is whether to refresh frenzy charges or replace totem. If this action is not done, or not done when Shaper is well stunned, this may result in him breaking free from the stun-locking. 2. Due to recent ECoMS buff, the Berserker version is better than before. 3. Chances are random. Even with 99% chance of stun-locking, one may fail to stun-lock in practice; even with 1% chance of stun-locking, one may succeed. There is no way to correctly feel the actual chances besides experimenting a good number of times. *This manual mistake cannot be taken account of by my code, but my code is already taking account of the duration of the fight when calculating chances of stun-locking. Overall, I have to restate that I am pretty surprised (actually I kinda expected) that this crit version worked out. There is still room for some improvements (like why are you using a flame golem?) and I am thinking of trying this version out. After testing, I will be very interested in writing a section about this variant in the guide, providing that you're not planning to do so (and agree to let me do so). About map clearing, I am not sure if Cyclone works well (small AoE area). Flicker would need Melee Splash and Ancestral Call - should still be alright? Lacerate seems like a mediocre choice to me, not too bad but not too ideal either. If using Flicker maybe Terminus 6L is better; otherwise, another Starforge is a better choice. Last edited by brightwaha on Mar 17, 2018, 3:02:18 PM
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Spoiler
" Yeah i pasted from import character and i forgot i had that left out for a test i will link again the correct one :https://pastebin.com/Euu2dLaF TBh slayer was so slow and the damage was not good that for the time needed to reach full endurance and full frenzy i was dead or out of flasks. The fight was dragging too much, something that i had no problemwith berserker last leage , whatever i did, no matter how good items i invested to, i was struggling. In this crit version the fights finish way too fast as the damage output is insane and it feels that way also. 1 double damage heavy strike crit is enough to almost 1 hit ko a T13 boss. And i am not even gear optimized!- Hard to find good rares- With flasks open u stun whatever is infront of u and within that time it is enough to either kill it or in case of a guardian to reduce its Hp a lot. Cyclone might be slower to clear but it is smooth in your eyes compared to flicker and i have to say that a rarely die mapping this way. with flicker sometimes frenzy was consumed and insta-died in the middle of the monster pack. With lacrate again i died too many times and it felt inconvenient for me. With cyclone i almost never die and the mapping goes smoothly and i enjoy it too much( clear speed is faster than heavy strike slayer or at least i feel that way) Its all about your preference. The main point is that it has the stun capability combined with the extreme dps output which leads to the feel that the stun is higher even though it is not - if u try it you will understand what i try to say :) I am not into writting guides and i do not believe that i have the right to as it is inspired from your build and another build that uses pure dps with my own touch in it. Feel free to perfect it and write a section i would love to see the improvements as i will be playing this build from now on ( I will try the berserker with ecoms to see if the feel is similar first) * The flame golem is purely because i did spent like 400 chromes spamming the Redbleak templars and not getting the colors but i will pay for a voroici service and put an ice golem in, also i want to either get a corrupted for more frenzy or a 120% increase crit uber lab enchant on it ** Terminus 5 link is a cheap way to do endgame and as it was a test i didn't want to spend much currency,i thought of a second starforge with cyclone in but to tell u the truth i think terminusit is enough dps wise and u have faster movement speed and a very high crit so the difference must not be that big i believe in mapping. now we are talking about 5 link if chosen to go for a 6 link then the cost is not that far apart and it might be better with starforge,i have to test it. For the 6th link ecoms might be a clever idea to generate endurance charges and get even tankier with some more dps during map clearing and just swap at the boss or hard enemies. Last edited by Cloud_69 on Mar 17, 2018, 8:54:56 PM
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" I’m not sitting next to a computer right now and I don’t really have much to say, but here is a section I wrote several days ago to fix the charge problems. Boots Swap Trick
Spoiler
Swap on this pair of boots before boss fights to gain up to maximum endurance and frenzy charges; swap back to Redblade Tramplers before triggering the boss fight. Of course you won't want to bother applying this trick unless you're facing challenging bosses like Shaper. I saw this trick in Ziziran’s stream when he was doing Uber Elder and Shaper fights with his RF build. |
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" Over the last couple of days I have been testing Flicker Strike, and it's very surprising that Flicker is feeling very smooth. Blood Rage is able to sustain frenzy charges most of the times. I tested Slayer, Berserker and Ascendant and I liked Flicker on all those ascendancies. So I made changes to the guide and now I am suggesting people to try out Flicker Strike to see if they like it. I feel with good gears Flicker definitely clears faster than either Sunder or Heavy Strike. Thanks for mentioning Flicker and I think last time I tried Flicker was before the release of Ancestral Call Support - I should have tested this skill with Ancestral Call earlier. BTW, determination really doesn't do much. Arctic Armour is usually a more cost-effective option and even Blasphemy Enfeeble is significantly better. Generally, as long as we have 6 endurance charges up and are stunning enemies effectively, we don't have to worry about physical mitigation. |
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