Nothing wrong with Blade Flurry, it's not OP it just doesn't suck like typical melee

"

sidtherat wrote:

what you do is a) arguing against entire world b) saying that planes cannot fly because the plane is heavier than the air displaced AFTER being flown in one but CHECK MY NAPKIN MATH!!

reasoning with people like that is entertaining but does not create any value

in short: you are wrong and the longer you pretend to know it better than every f.. player around the bigger the laughs

Again if you have anything actually relevant to contribute feel free to do so otherwise you're dangerously close to being reported for obvious trolling.

The numbers are clear, the facts are all presented, meanwhile after several posts you haven't presented anything resembling an actual CASE for your point of view at all, instead simply spamming ad-hominem, which only serves to make you look less intelligent each time.

"

Legatus1982 wrote:

"

grepman wrote:

lol. biased opinions produce biased posts.
same people said earthquake wasnt op either

I've never commented on EQ because I don't use it. Looking at the numbers though:

Earthquake deals 1.09 + 1.09x1.5 = 272.5% damage out of the box on the first use and hits half the screen roughly with 80% increased AOE.

AOE size Source:

Spoiler

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6qSpOIhiLs

I don't know what 80% increased aoe looks like on bf, but I'd imagine it to be roughly the same AT THE IMPACT ZONE (feel free to correct me on this). Each hit from bf will deal 66% damage with no stacks, and attacks 60% faster, plus adds an extra hit at the end and gives 20% more for each stack. It can REACH targets further away however (don't need to be centered on the target), so that is a small bonus for bf.

So in the space of time it takes you to hit with one EQ, you will strike ~3 times with BF, centered on a random mob somewhere in the cone towards your cursor, for 66% on the first hit, 66x1.2 on the second, and 66x1.4 on the third (I assume the 2nd stage is a flat 40% more and not a stacking multiplier on top of itself).

66 + 79.2 + 92.4 = 237.6%

So out of the box EQ, even post-nerf, is dealing today more damage than bf out of the box on release by a small margin (2.725-2.376 = 34.9% weapon damage more roughly). When you consider that the 3 attacks from BF are slightly faster than the single hit from EQ it might even out over the course of a map, however you're probably not going to release at the perfect moment right after the 2nd stack, so you'll probably not likely see any bonuses of that sort.

TLDR: even post-nerf EQ is still doing better than this skill, and I didn't see anyone in EHC using earthquake at the top of the ladder. You people are flapping your arms wildly like enraged chickens about something that isn't even that good.

Your "math" ignores that

a) daggers, swords, and claws are much faster in comparison to the typical EQ-Marohi-Noobqi
b) EQ builds usually use resolute technique and daggers etc are used crit based, which adds another multiplier on top of what the BF gem provides already
c) all BF-relevant weapons enable whirling blades for faster general clear compared to EQ
d) there's probably more, but I'm kinda lazy now... Doesn't take a genius to see that your "math" is biased at best.

Tested blade flurry today on different crit characters, dw binos, dw 300+dps daggers and also with dw 300+dps foils, the damage seems very good, but reave or my 1h bleed/poison RT EQ stil clears faster than blade flurry. I dont understand why people said this skill was "insane", its a very fun skill with good single target, but there are other melee skills that does just as good or better.

"

Legatus1982 wrote:

I've never commented on EQ because I don't use it.

I wasn't talking about you, but the op. if one is biased and are championing 'melee' skills 24/7 , of course any time an op skill comes along, they will defend it. they will defend a super strong skill as long as it's in their 'camp'.


about your eq calculations, Im not quite following because you compare linear eq to geometric sum of bf.
compare max stacked bf with eq, not just over two stages. bf is best at releasing it just as you hit max stages

Shppy already did calculations in another thread, but if we're comparing out of box stuff, you also need to take in account the eq aftershock delay and attack speed.

not to mention, on hit/on crit effects which favor more hits per timeslice. and in general, weapon speed matters - you want a fast weapon for bf, but dont care much if weapon for eq is slow (marohi even works), because you want to max the damage per hit

anyway, at 6 stacks, you've dealt 66% * (1.2^n) where n is from 1 to 6, so 634% damage. you also attacked 6 times. then on release it hits 6 more times for another 634% damage nearly instaneously

1268% damage over the speed of six actual attacks but 12 hits. at 65% more speed.

lets assume for a second we have equal weapon speeds of 1 aps and same increases of attack speed

out of the box (ie no less duration) eq goes slow and steady

1.0 1.5 2.0 2.5 3.0 3.5 4.0 4.5 5.0....10.0 ->seconds
-----------------------------------
1.0 1.0 2.0 3.5 4.5 6.0 7.0 8.5 9.5.... -> total damage (*1.09) =22 over 10s

bf goes fast and bursts in releases. the benefit of last stage + release is humongous

1.0 1.5 2.0 2.5 3.0 3.5 4.0 4.5 5.0 ->seconds
-----------------------------------
1.1.............8.6....23(!!)... ->total damage(*0.66)

even then, I dont disagree eq is still extremely strong and still quite op. eq used to be the epitome of overpowered skill in the 'melee' aka spell scaling off weapon damage department. now we can add bf to the list

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Sure_K4y wrote:

Your "math" ignores that

a) daggers, swords, and claws are much faster in comparison to the typical EQ-Marohi-Noobqi
b) EQ builds usually use resolute technique and daggers etc are used crit based, which adds another multiplier on top of what the BF gem provides already
c) all BF-relevant weapons enable whirling blades for faster general clear compared to EQ
d) there's probably more, but I'm kinda lazy now... Doesn't take a genius to see that your "math" is biased at best.

You are not restricted from going crit staff or crit mace, or etc, this argument list is pointless and irrelevant.
And idk where you got the idea whirling blades somehow enables faster movement than leap slam, which ignores map obstacles and allows you to scale cliffs and such. Some of your points are semi-valid, but certainly as a whole this list doesn't add anything to the debate at all.

You show me someone clearing a gorge in less than 1 minute with BF and you'll have a point made. But you won't find such a thing because it won't exist even with mirrored gear, and certainly not in a temp league.

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Draizor wrote:

Tested blade flurry today on different crit characters, dw binos, dw 300+dps daggers and also with dw 300+dps foils, the damage seems very good, but reave or my 1h bleed/poison RT EQ stil clears faster than blade flurry. I dont understand why people said this skill was "insane", its a very fun skill with good single target, but there are other melee skills that does just as good or better.

with great gear reave is the better clear speed for general (non-guardian/boss) mapping, I agree with that. its because the aiming is quite straightfoward and the aoe is uniform.

reave is quite crap against single target though. bf is a pretty much both a ST and clear skill

"

grepman wrote:

snip

If you want to compare gems you basically need to compare likely clear speed for investment spent on the build in the leagues that are coming soon. Spells will still win this category even if you doubled the damage on BF. This argument is completely pointless honestly, I'm just providing the numbers for people who want to cry about how OP it is despite not knowing the obvious facts. Which are that this gem does less damage in the same time as many existing "melee" gems, and certainly won't clear faster than ones we already have either. And in terms of attacks vs spells it still won't even be close. Those are the relevant facts.

"

Legatus1982 wrote:

"

grepman wrote:

snip

If you want to compare gems you basically need to compare likely clear speed for investment spent on the build in the leagues that are coming soon. Spells will still win this category even if you doubled the damage on BF. This argument is completely pointless honestly, I'm just providing the numbers for people who want to cry about how OP it is despite not knowing the obvious facts. Which are that this gem does less damage in the same time as many existing "melee" gems, and certainly won't clear faster than ones we already have either. And in terms of attacks vs spells it still won't even be close. Those are the relevant facts.

so wait, you compared 'out of the box' eq to bf, then I did some analysis on 'out of the box' showing how at consistent 6 stacks bf beats eq handily 'out of the box'...

and now you move the goalposts ?

well done, well done.

the whole 'spells still rule against 'melee'/melee therefore melee cannot be op' argument is one of the worst. it REEKS of double standard and bias.


the flowchart of determining how powerful a skill is, objectively speaking, does not involve a check whether a skill is 'melee' or not. it doesnt matter which 'camp' the skill is in. if its op, its op. otherwise we end up with the whole 'enemy has spies, but we have intelligence' nonsense.

so much biased BS..


BF beats reave due to:
a) BETTER coverage (no reliance on vaal skill, always 100% efficiency). not visible in napkin math.
b) better spatial coverage due to NO MULTISTRIKE. if one is mechanical enough it is possible to aim BF for each 'tick'. not visible in napkin math
c) NO MULTISTRIKE - reave (esp with crit builds) hits 3 times. 1 hit kills everything, 2 consecutive strikes hit empty ground. waste of time - ofc not visible in any napkin math BS.

d) GODLY leech + GODLY poison application (esp with Assassin)

e) one more multiplier due to no MULTISTRIKE


reave is still fine but it wont be long before everyone and their dog abandon it and move to BF land.

comparing it with earthquake is being desperate. but when someone has an agenda, he will do everything to prevent ggg nerfing their precious OP toy

i agree that melee is garbage right now. but fixing melee by sneaking one OP skill into the game is as stupid as fix idea can be.

"

sidtherat wrote:

reave is still fine but it wont be long before everyone and their dog abandon it and move to BF land.

comparing it with earthquake is being desperate. but when someone has an agenda, he will do everything to prevent ggg nerfing their precious OP toy

i agree that melee is garbage right now. but fixing melee by sneaking one OP skill into the game is as stupid as fix idea can be.

^Pretty much sums it up.