Trying to figure out Mobo Memory standards for desperately needed upgrade

I have only built 1 custom desktop so far and it is starting to fall apart on my girlfriend after a few years (probably what we deserve for having to focus on a hard $700 budget including 24" monitor as it was her parent's HS graduation gift for college). So long story short, looking at jumping from a crappy A8-5600k apu and related mobo and DDR3 ram to skylake i5 6600k at least, maybe going i7-6700k depending on sale prices now that we lasted until november.

So with buying DDR4 memory to go along with a Z170 Mobo, I have run into a little problem that I don't quite understand. The current mobo had memory standards that had no O.C. in the Newegg product specifications. The mobos I am currently looking at have a list like this:

DDR4 3200*(*OC)/ 3000*/ 2800*/ 2600*/ 2400/ 2133

I know that the (*OC) means those MHZ require Bios tinkering but are possible to get up and running with that particular board, but I can't find a straight out answer if it is worth it since it could potentially damage the board/CPU. This is a pretty cheap but well rated board and if I look up another well rated, more expensive gaming mobo I still get standards like this:

DDR4 3600*(*OC)/ 3200*/ 3000*/ 2800*/ 2600*/ 2400*/ 2133

for double the price.

I had originally been looking at MHZ comparisons based on price as I had read and watched videos explaining that for the most part, MHZ on RAM makes virtually no differences for gaming, like 1-2fps avg at most. So what I am now trying to figure out is if I stick to the cheaper board, would it be best to just purchase a 2400 or 2133 (whatever has the best price point at the time) and leave it at that? Or is it safe to be looking closer at the 2800-3000 range even if it requires BIOS tinkering. I am mostly concerned about upgrading the computer, only to cause the new upgrades problems in the future.

I was overall just a little confused when stumbling across all these (*OC) standards as I would think that you could find Mobos by now that have those standards without OC at this point. I am having trouble figuring out where I can find the information I am looking for by googling around so I thought I would post here for now for those that do understand this stuff better than I do. It just seems that even looking at the most expensive z170 mobos out there, 2133 is the only speed that doesn't involve (*OC) standards and that leads me to think anything else is unsafe/not worth the hassle or am I wrong?

With PCs, when in doubt err on the side of discretion. I can't answer your question directly, but I've built 4 PCs for myself and for others, and that's my approach.

I'd take it that 3200 (OC) means DDR4 ram OC'd (not stock) up to 3200 at the maximum. Until proven otherwise. So if you want to play it safe, I'd get 3000mhz ram for example. The difference between 3000mhz and 3200mhz is going to be non-existent for gaming purposes. In most cases. I'd be surprised if your OS even boots 1-2 seconds faster with 200mhz faster ram.

CAS on ram is another factor. CAS 9 is better than CAS 11 for example. CAS 11 ram of with the same MHZ will be quite a bit cheaper than CAS 9 ram. But you shouldn't worry about that too much on a budget build.

If you're on a budget, get the cheaper motherboard. $80-$100 on a motherboard is fine for a budget PC. If you want a motherboard that's good a good OCer, and is good for 2-way crossfire/sli, you might have to spend $150+ range.

With motherboards, if it's not one of these brands, I don't buy it:

- Asus
- Gigabyte
- Asrock

Asus and Asrock typically have better overclocking tools than Gigabyte boards. I've always had a harder time getting a stable overclock on a Gigabyte board. But they're still good quality motherboards.

"

MrSmiley21 wrote:

With PCs, when in doubt err on the side of discretion. I can't answer your question directly, but I've built 4 PCs for myself and for others, and that's my approach.

I'd take it that 3200 (OC) means DDR4 ram OC'd (not stock) up to 3200 at the maximum. Until proven otherwise. So if you want to play it safe, I'd get 3000mhz ram for example. The difference between 3000mhz and 3200mhz is going to be non-existent for gaming purposes. In most cases. I'd be surprised if your OS even boots 1-2 seconds faster with 200mhz faster ram.

CAS on ram is another factor. CAS 9 is better than CAS 11 for example. CAS 11 ram of with the same MHZ will be quite a bit cheaper than CAS 9 ram. But you shouldn't worry about that too much on a budget build.

If you're on a budget, get the cheaper motherboard. $80-$100 on a motherboard is fine for a budget PC. If you want a motherboard that's good a good OCer, and is good for 2-way crossfire/sli, you might have to spend $150+ range.

With motherboards, if it's not one of these brands, I don't buy it:

- Asus
- Gigabyte
- Asrock

Asus and Asrock typically have better overclocking tools than Gigabyte boards. I've always had a harder time getting a stable overclock on a Gigabyte board. But they're still good quality motherboards.

From what I understand, the OC means I have to change the settings in the BIOS to recognize and use higher Frequencies at the cost of more voltage, which translates to potential instability and frying of the mobo/cpu. If I do nothing, the 3000 I was originally looking at would just act as a 2400 and won't go higher. This isn't a super big deal as I said, from previous research, ram freq seems to mean almost jack squat for gaming, 1-2 frames difference at best in most cases. What I am trying to figure out is if we should just stick to the standard of 2400 max or pay a few bucks more and go for the higher freq and either leave it at the lower freq or figure out how to OC the ram setup. What I still can't find out, probably due to inexperience of knowing how to google this exactly, is if we choose to OC it for whatever reason, how risky it is because a few bucks difference between 2 sticks of 3000 to 2400 may be worth it if the higher freq would be useful in the future.

What makes it more confusing is that I was under the impression that if I looked at newer mobos I would find that some would natively support 2800 and up without OC, but this is not the case it seems. This makes me conclude that DDR4 related tech is not at a state where those higher frequencies can even be utilized yet, just that RAM producers are making the ram sticks those Frequencies because it is possible and thus can convince some people "hey this MHZ is higher so it is automatically better!"

What is it about Asus, Gig, and Asrock that makes you disregard all others? The board I had pointed out at about $80 is MSI and as I said, has pretty high reviews and is Crossfire capable as we are going to go single RX 480 8gb and potentially add another in the future if ever necessary before complete replacement. I know they aren't directly relatable, but my own laptop is an MSI that has lasted me well through medium gaming and just personally never heard of anything particularly bad about their boards. But also in general, I don't see much difference between an 80-100 board versus 150+ range. I know they will have more specific bells and whistles, but the $100 boards seem to have plenty for my girlfriends distant future needs, usb 3.0, crossfire, plenty of total ram support, cpu overclock tools etc. Is there something I would be missing as a novice builder?

Sigh. You usually need a Z - board to be able to OC your RAM, the performance gain isn't that big. Budget? Resolution? What software? What games?

i5 6500 - 6600(K with Z - board)
i7 6700k (the K has slightly higher clocks for a similar price, no Z board needed if you don't OC)
16GB RAM Dualchannel aka a 2x8GB Kit 2133 on a non Z board, otherwise possible to get 3kMHz ones! (you could read up about x ranked RAM, not sure if there is a hidden performance increase for 0 bucks)
Cards: (1050ti 4GB), 470/480 8GB / 1060 6 GB for 250 - 300 bucks, 1070 for 400 bucks
If no OC and no OC RAM: even the cheapest board might suffice, for upgrade options 4 RAM slots aren't bad to have.
'250' GB SSD
400W - 500W PSU of a decent brand
case which can fit all the crap
HDD to store Data
Optional since in most cases the boxed cooler can be used: Ben Nevis or another cheap but decent CPU cooler.
Even a fucking H110 board should do the job now, was not the case 10 years ago lel thx to shitty capacitors on cheap boards.

read tests about about the components


Edit: The Memory aka RAM Controller is IN THE CPU! Soo...
Edit2: Forget about Crossfire and SLI, I recommend a dedicated PC/tech forum/board to get better replies.

"

BlueMonday wrote:

Sigh. You usually need a Z - board to be able to OC your RAM, the performance gain isn't that big. Budget? Resolution? What software? What games?

i5 6500 - 6600(K with Z - board)
i7 6700k (the K has slightly higher clocks for a similar price, no Z board needed if you don't OC)
16GB RAM Dualchannel aka a 2x8GB Kit 2133 on a non Z board, otherwise possible to get 3kMHz ones! (you could read up about x ranked RAM, not sure if there is a hidden performance increase for 0 bucks)
Cards: (1050ti 4GB), 470/480 8GB / 1060 6 GB for 250 - 300 bucks, 1070 for 400 bucks
If no OC and no OC RAM: even the cheapest board might suffice, for upgrade options 4 RAM slots aren't bad to have.
'250' GB SSD
400W - 500W PSU of a decent brand
case which can fit all the crap
HDD to store Data
Optional since in most cases the boxed cooler can be used: Ben Nevis or another cheap but decent CPU cooler.
Even a fucking H110 board should do the job now, was not the case 10 years ago lel thx to shitty capacitors on cheap boards.

read tests about about the components


Edit: The Memory aka RAM Controller is IN THE CPU! Soo...
Edit2: Forget about Crossfire and SLI, I recommend a dedicated PC/tech forum/board to get better replies.

Storage, psu, case, etc. is already in place and will be proper for 6700k and rx 480 that we were aiming at, potentially going to stick to the much more popular i5 6600k if we deem the 6700k to not be worth it for the near future, although 6700k seems more recommended if one would want to start streaming. Planning on 16gb ddr4 ram. The problem I posted in the OP is that I can't quite understand what the OC meant. If we purchase 3000 and the 3000 is in the (*OC) section, as I have come to understand it last night, means that at the time the board was made, ram could be overclocked to 3000 and has been tested to work as such but at the time of testing there likely was no such thing as a ram stick that came in at 3000 without OCing. So I think I got myself the answer last night that anything in the (*OC) sections can be purchased and should be fine as far as I could tell, it was if I bought say 2400 and overclocked that specific ram to be higher than 2400 that it would work, but stability may be a casualty of such an OC.

So essentially what we have decided is that it can't hurt to purchase 3000 over 2400 ramfor the motherboard I had picked out so far as worst case scenario, the cpu forces the ram to 2400 by default and we don't want to bother OC for a few fps better and the price difference between the 3000 16gb we want and 2400 16gb dual channel is pretty much tolerable for the chance it will run at 3000 anyway.

Although I did a closer look at the board I had picked out first and decided it was worth it to bump the budget and avoid that particular one, did find out MSI has a pretty insufferable customer service experience in most people's cases and the board itself had no complaints but people did mention it was differently shaped than a standard atx motherboard of the z170 chipset and that mildly annoyed some people. So instead, especially since it is Black November, keeping an eye out for any of the mobos in the 130-150 range with good quality and reviews to go on sale and be more willing to dish out a bit more dough for some more trusty quality (and probably some bells and whistles my girlfriend would use eventually).

TL;DR: I know what I am doing for the rest of the computer upgrades, just had trouble understanding the (*OC) listed on newegg and other sites in regards to mobos and what DDR4 ram would be worth looking at. Think I figured it out last night though. Correct if I am wrong if you know though.

I remember OCing some 1600mhz DDR3 ram to 2000mhz, and didn't notice any difference. I don't even think my it got me 1fps in a single game I played. For a budget PC, you're fine with getting lower grade DDR4 ram. DDR4 ram is faster than DDR3 ram, even if the mhz range is sorta close.

You probably want an aftermarket CPU cooler if you don't have one already. I recommend a Cooler Master 212+ evo. It's $20-$30, and it's better than twice as good as a stock cooler. To get much better than a 212+ evo, you're gonna have to spend $60+ range for something like a Noctua, or low end water cooled. You can get that $20-$30 by saving on ram. H80 is a very, very solid CPU cooler.

Some might disagree, but I always found it harder to get a stable CPU overclock when using more than 2 sticks of ram in my PC. I had an I5 2500k CPU that wouldn't overclock for shit with 4 sticks of ram in it (couldn't even get 4.5ghz stable), pulled 2 of them out and the fucking thing would do 4.7ghz at 1.35ish volt range which was a pretty nice overclock for that voltage. I was able to keep that cool with a 212+ evo cooler.

Difference between good OCing tools on a motherboard is the difference between a stable OC taking a couple hours a day for a week, to getting it instantly. That's huge. Especially for someone like me who gets homicidal when things don't go their way.

"

MrSmiley21 wrote:

I remember OCing some 1600mhz DDR3 ram to 2000mhz, and didn't notice any difference. I don't even think my it got me 1fps in a single game I played. For a budget PC, you're fine with getting lower grade DDR4 ram. DDR4 ram is faster than DDR3 ram, even if the mhz range is sorta close.

You probably want an aftermarket CPU cooler if you don't have one already. I recommend a Cooler Master 212+ evo. It's $20-$30, and it's better than twice as good as a stock cooler. To get much better than a 212+ evo, you're gonna have to spend $60+ range for something like a Noctua, or low end water cooled. You can get that $20-$30 by saving on ram. H80 is a very, very solid CPU cooler.

Some might disagree, but I always found it harder to get a stable CPU overclock when using more than 2 sticks of ram in my PC. I had an I5 2500k CPU that wouldn't overclock for shit with 4 sticks of ram in it (couldn't even get 4.5ghz stable), pulled 2 of them out and the fucking thing would do 4.7ghz at 1.35ish volt range which was a pretty nice overclock for that voltage. I was able to keep that cool with a 212+ evo cooler.

Difference between good OCing tools on a motherboard is the difference between a stable OC taking a couple hours a day for a week, to getting it instantly. That's huge. Especially for someone like me who gets homicidal when things don't go their way.

Aftermarket cooler already on the checklist. Like I said above in the reply, everything else is taken care of, it was purely the (*OC) on mobo memory standards I wasn't understanding and I think I got it now.