The Taming Prismatic Ring

So I've been trying to get some advantage out of the Taming on my nonstop flicker/Oros build.
The build lack damage on end game bosses so i thought stacking ignite with emberwake should really boost the dmg output on bosses with the taming that are not ignite immune..

I've got about 9 aps with flicker and 95% chance to ignite so basically i should be able to stack about 40 ignites on bosses at all times without increased ingite duration.
This should be equvalent to about 400% increased damage with the taming.

It could hardly notice any difference in dmg on rough bosses with lots of life. Even though the increase is incremental it is proportional meaning the decrease in boss hp should accelerate with every hit. Flicker strike with 9-10 aps has a 100% uptime and continuous damage output. This makes it easy to monitor the boss hp and search for any changes to the rate of dmg while applying ingite stacks.

I thought the visible test lacked detailed information so we did another test.

I tried to this with another player in duel to try and pull out some numbers.
Stripping my dmg output to minimum I was able to stack about 40 ingites on another player in a duel, and it confirmed my suspicion, there was no increased dmg on the player with 40 stack / 400 dmg increase.
I did roughly 200 dmg per hit, before and after stacking.
The emberwake does stack ignite which was visible for the other player, but the taming does not seem to boost my dmg properly. At least not in this type of setup.

Has anyone else tested this? Is there any other way to debug the mechanic and figure out if its working? Any information or comments would be very helpfull.

It was truly dissapointing to farm for this ring in essence league and not getting it to work.
Hopefully someone can explain this so i can either reroll or wait for a fix.

Thank you for your time :)
Last edited by Obskur on Sep 30, 2016, 7:56:59 AM
Last bumped on Apr 19, 2017, 11:10:38 PM
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EDIT 1: IT SEEMS TO WORK IF YOU DEAL ENOUGH FIRE DMG TO IGNITE.

With only 1 aura up my mantra of flames apparently adds so little fire dmg that the ignite dmg rounds to 0, and i dont apply ignite. I tested in pvp and with 2 auras i reliably ignite, and then i do deal a lot more dmg.


EDIT 2: Still, I deal way way less dmg than I calculated. I don't understand why.


Original post in spoiler:
Spoiler

I'm playing:

Wither - Cast When Channeling - Ball Lightning - Chance to Ignite - Increased AoE - Void Manipulation

on a pathfinder with voltaxic rift, poison during flask effect, 15% increased AoE from tree and the dying sun with 50% increased flask effect.

Atm I have around 95% chance to ignite and hit several times with every ball lightning. So I should stack a HUUUUUGEE amount of ignites.

The build is basically made to take down only The Shaper and Guardian of the Minotaur (since they have the insane HP that lets me stack up, and Uber Atziri/Guardian of The Phoenix are immune to ignite, Guardian of The Hydra/Chimera are immune to poison). Yet I dont shred bosses as insanely fast as I thought even when stacked up and dont feel like I have anywhere near the damage required to kill Guardians. Sure, I can still scale stuff more as I dont have a lvl 20 ball lightning, but it feels like it might possibly not be working.

Good thing you gave confirmation on this.
Gravity is just a prejudice. A part of Earth's jurisdiction. As an apache helicopter, I find that very oppressive.
Last edited by Zorajin on Jan 15, 2017, 6:36:57 PM
The math is pretty much this:
Spoiler

Ball Lightning base radius is 16. I have 96% increased AoE with flask up. That should give 31 radius.

Assuming Ball Lightning moves 40 units in 1 second before slower proj (i dont understand what the number "400" on projectile speed means). With slower proj it moves 20 ish units in 1 second. The diameter is double the radius thus 31*2=62 units the projectile needs to move through. That should take around 3 seconds and since ball lightning hits 5 times per second, thus lead to 15 hits. Since I dont really know the mechanical numbers here lets make it easy, and go harsh on the builds theoretical damage at the same time, and assume it has slightly more than 10 hits per ball.

Lets say it ignites around 10 times per ball with my 96% chance to ignite. I shoot Ball Lightnings every 0.37 seconds, that is 2.7027027 balls per second. Giving me 27 ignites per second.

The ignites last 4 seconds as base. I have 29% increased ignite duration from jewels. That gives me 4*1.29=5.16 seconds ignite. 5.16 seconds long ignites times 27 ignites per second gives me 139 ignites. This is without temporal chains with enhance and uber lab enchant.

I cast wither in 0.25 seconds and it lasts 2.00 seconds. This lets me put 4 withers per second lasting 2 seconds for 4*2=8 withers on the target enemy. The 8 withers increase the chaos damage taken by 56%. I also apply vinktars shock for another 50% increased damage taken for a total of 106% chaos damage taken.

Ball Lightning base damage at lvl 17 is 11-217 which gives an average of 114, after voltaxic converts 60% to chaos (which is all that really matters with poison). 114*0.6=68 chaos damage per hit. The math was counted low and assumed we only ignited 27 times per second. Lets count low again and discount the hits that didnt ignite.

Slower projectiles dmg bonus is easy: 28% more dmg at my gem lvl.

So: 68*27*(1+139*10%)*(1+106%)*128%=

=68*27*(100%+1390%)*(100%+106%)=

=68*27*14.9*2.06*1.29=72696,89736 , or 72k dps

All of that 72k dps poisons. So 8% per second of 72k for 2 seconds, increased by 20% from pathfinder leading to 2.4 seconds poison duration. And all of the double dipping modifiers applies to that. Counting again.

First base damage * poison 8% of original hit * taming * (wither+vinktar) * slower proj

72696,89736*0.08*2.4*14.9*2.06*1.29=552662,8900152026 , or 552k poison dps.

You may see now why I am a bit concerned that after almost running out of flasks, I still dont have insane damage versus even t12 map bosses.

(I removed void manipulation because it lowers fire damage and might make me ignite less before I have reached the stage of ignites ramped up enough to deal so much damage that it's always enough to apply more ignites.)
Gravity is just a prejudice. A part of Earth's jurisdiction. As an apache helicopter, I find that very oppressive.
Last edited by Zorajin on Jan 15, 2017, 9:00:10 PM
If you add a text-based calculation in addition to the numerical one people will actually be able to understand it Zorajin.
Text-based calculation how? As in a separate spreadsheet for the math or explaining the game mechanics with words?

Thanks for the reply!
Gravity is just a prejudice. A part of Earth's jurisdiction. As an apache helicopter, I find that very oppressive.
With taming emberwake I stack around 140 ignites which each increase my dmg by 10%. This totals to around 15 times the original damage.

For this character I have used this scaling instead of getting damage passives, as the increased dmg vs the ignited target stacks with other sources of increased damage.

By comparison, most builds I theorycraft usually end up with 400% to 800% increased damage. Grand spectrum before nerf used to end up with:
500% (10 jewels) increased damage
605% (11 jewels) increased damage
720% (12 jewels) increased damage
845% (13 jewels) increased damage
980% (14 jewels) increased damage
1125% (15 jewels) increased damage
1280% (16 jewels) increased damage

That means 1400% is very high. The high theoretical damage numbers for the poison is achieved by all that damage double dipping since it is an untyped damage increase.
Gravity is just a prejudice. A part of Earth's jurisdiction. As an apache helicopter, I find that very oppressive.
Last edited by Zorajin on Jan 15, 2017, 8:47:49 PM
"
Zorajin wrote:
That means 1400% is very high. The high theoretical damage numbers for the poison is achieved by all that damage double dipping since it is an untyped damage increase.

It's also a conditional increase, meaning it doesn't apply to Damage over Time. Link of Mark stating Hypothermia (%more damage vs. Chilled) does not work with DoT.
Thank you so much for the answer! Now I can let this idea rest in peace and drop the voltaxic or just go grand spectrum with some other skill since I almost have the jewel sockets already.

TY. :D
Gravity is just a prejudice. A part of Earth's jurisdiction. As an apache helicopter, I find that very oppressive.
Last edited by Zorajin on Jan 15, 2017, 10:43:07 PM
Taming + Emberwake still seems to not be working correctly. I made a Blast Rain character, used the rings, stacked ignite chance, and tested on my buddy in pvp. I was able to stack over 100 ignites before killing him (which means that bosses should be getting even more). Thats 1000% increased damage (which should basically be all of my % increased damage since I generally avoided it on the tree).

This damage increase should be blatantly apparent on boss fights. But we've tested it multiple times and my damage doesn't seem to increase significantly (if at all) after applying maximum ignite stacks on bosses. Am I missing something here?

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