Failing to understand life leech and how to get more life per hit faster.

Great info. Here is my calculation based on my duelist and this thread:

Life: 3,242 (from red globe)

From the Character screen:

DPS from cleave: 22,172
Attacks per second 5.1
Main hand physical damage: 3,000 (top of the range)
Off hand physical damage: 2,850 (top of the range)
Main hand life leech from physical damage: 2.9% (1.4 x 2%)
Off hand life leech from physical damage: 2.9%
Life Leech modifier: +40%

Base Life Leech: 65 (2% x 3242 life)

2.9% of 5,850 physical dps = 170 life leeched per second

I run Warlord's Mark as an aura and that adds 2% Life Leech when hit or 117 (2% x 5850) life for 1 second after each hit.

My life regen (from Defense tab) is 172 life per second.

So am I correct that when I'm hitting stuff in mobs and being hit, I am generating LL plus regen of about 460 life per second?

Does Life Leech actually only work off physical damage? When I go into an area and turn on my auras, my dps approaches 30k.

When I use Ancestral Protector, my attack speed goes up and adds to my physical damage; can I assume the Life leech also scales?

"

d4rk5oul wrote:

Life leech rate modifier. That's the stat in my char window i currently believe is the stat your talking about at this part of your explanation?:

"

adghar wrote:

Notice how universal that 80/s was. The only way to change that is with increased life leech rate

If we stuck with it being 80/s because of the 4k life then making Life leech rate modifier go up to 100% would make the leech rate become 160/s i assume/hope?

Yes

"

d4rk5oul wrote:

Expanding upon that assumption:
Taking the 'Lust for Carnage' big skill point thing gives me 1.2% of physical attack damage leeched as life and 20% Increased life leeched per second.

Ignoring the 1.2% for the moment am i right in thinking the 20% Increased life leeched per second will make the Life leech rate modifier go up in my char window AND more importantly also increase the 80/s to something more as a result? (Depending on what the Life leech rate modifier stat changes too once the 20% is applied)

Yes

"

d4rk5oul wrote:

If this is the case i shall re-ask a previous question of if it is possible to make my Life leech rate modifier stat in my char window go passed 100% to say 120% or 150% AND more importantly have an effect on the 80/s? Example would be if i have it at 100% the 80/s becomes 160/s and if i could get it to 200% it would become 240? Or is 100% the limit?

Yes, you can do that. There is no known limit on leech rate, so you can get 240/s in this case. There are generally not caps in this game for pure multipliers; there are basically caps for reductions and chances (chance to Hit, chance to Crit; soft caps on Resistance; hard cap on Physical Damage Reduction stat; soft cap on Block).

"

d4rk5oul wrote:

Similarly if i was take the big skill point thing called 'Hematophagy' part of its stats include +5% of maximum life per second to maximum life leech rate. Is this something that would increase this part of your explanation?:

"

adghar wrote:

EDIT: That is, if you continue the pattern, you would have reached 24% or 960/s. You could only do that with +4% max leech rate and/or 20% increased max leech rate.

Yes, that's +5% max leech rate as I described it. It turns out "20% increased max leech rate" is not a stat that exists in this game, so, that's a mistake on my part for even mentioning it :P

"

ChanBalam wrote:

So am I correct that when I'm hitting stuff in mobs and being hit, I am generating LL plus regen of about 460 life per second?

No, sadly, 460 life per second is almost meaningless in this case. I almost feel like I should take back my comment about DPS and Damage being different...

First of all, your +40% is probably "Life Leech rate modifier," not an actual increase to amount of life leeched. (Re-read your character sheet carefully to double check this. Maybe you can surprise me!)

I didn't notice this until after I wrote most of my reply, but I must say that sadly, even if 2.9% was the right leech amount, 460 would still be not-very-useful:

-------------------------

The main reason being that when you calculate 2.9% of 5,850, that's not 170 life leeched per second, it's 65 life leeched per second, for the duration of 170/65 = 2.62 seconds. Further complicating matters is that Warlord's Mark adds onto this duration without adding any extra leech effects (Leech Effects are applied per Hit, not per Leech-granting-mechanic). So actually, it would more properly be 4.9% * 5,850 = 286.65. This is almost a meaningful number - it's the amount of Life you would recover if you only Hit 1 enemy 1 time, then stopped fighting. More useful is probably 286/65, or a leech duration of 4.4 seconds. So 1 single Hit on 1 single enemy only grants you 65 Life per Second for the duration of 4.4 seconds (assuming top roll).

5.1 attacks/second * 4.4 seconds / 1 leech effect = 22.44 total stackable leech effects in sustained combat vs 1 enemy. With no +x% max leech effect, you only need 10 effects to hit the cap, so you probably hit the leech cap in about 2 seconds against a single enemy.

You probably hit the leech cap (648/s) much faster than that against multiple enemies.

-------------------------

Note that actually your leech amount is 2% for each of your Hands, and the rate modifier instead applies to the 65. So...

Leech rate: 65 * 1.4 = 91
1 leech effect grants: 4.0% * 5,850 = 234 Life
Duration of 1 leech effect: 234 / 65 = 3.6 seconds

5.1 * 3.8 = 19.38 Hits possible to be dealt before 1st leech effect expires

648/91 = 7.12 Leech Effects needed to hit cap

So, 7.12/19.38 * 3.8 = about 1.4 seconds to hit the Leech cap against a single target.

Again, probably hit the leech cap (648/s) faster than that against multiple enemies.

Once you hit the Leech Cap, you're recovering 648/s (0.2 * 3242), plus your Life Regen per second, 172/s, for a total of 820 Life recovery per second.

"

ChanBalam wrote:

Does Life Leech actually only work off physical damage? When I go into an area and turn on my auras, my dps approaches 30k.

Life Leech modifiers are very much like damage modifiers. When they specify a type or category, they will apply only to that type or category. When they do not specify anything, they apply to anything (that Hits; Leech is a Hit-only effect). As your character sheet says, 2% of main hand and 2% of off-hand is "from physical damage," so it will only leech from physical damage dealt by your main/off hand. If you read the Warlord's Mark gem, you will notice it just says "grants 2.0% Life Leech when Hit," so that is pure damage.

This means, for each leech effect, you 2% * 5,850 as before, but then add that to 2% * (5,850 + elemental amounts). Suppose you had 30% of physical added as cold (like Hatred). Then your leech amount would be 2% * 5,850 + 2% * 5,850 * 1.3 or 269.1. Compare that with 234 life above. Leech duration will be 4.14 instead of 3.6 because 269.1/65 = 4.14

"

ChanBalam wrote:

When I use Ancestral Protector, my attack speed goes up and adds to my physical damage; can I assume the Life leech also scales?

Don't let Vipermagi catch you saying Ancestral Protector adds to your physical damage! Technically, Damage and DPS are different things. Ancestral Protector can only add to your DPS (and its own Damage; by existing, it increases its damage from 0 to whatever damage it deals)

Using Ancestral Protector will allow you to stack leech effects faster, which means you will hit the leech cap sooner. (Change 5.1 attacks per second in the above calculations to the appropriate number, like 5.1 * 1.2 = 6.1 for a level 20 Ancestral Protector, to see the effects).

Hope that helps!

And who devised such a system? :p

Yes it is pretty clear now. Jumping in and killing mobs has been life sustaining for my duelist. Now I see why. I will check on the "rate" language tomorrow and let you know.

This is my first really successful character and the life leech is a fun part of it. good threads like this have been a huge help. Thanks.

"

ChanBalam wrote:

And who devised such a system? :p

Mark_GGG, I think. If not, then at least he will know who did it.

"

ChanBalam wrote:

And who devised such a system? :p

Yes it is pretty clear now. Jumping in and killing mobs has been life sustaining for my duelist. Now I see why. I will check on the "rate" language tomorrow and let you know.

This is my first really successful character and the life leech is a fun part of it. good threads like this have been a huge help. Thanks.

Actually, if you perform hits quite frequent, you shouldnt care much about life leech mechanics. You should know only that Life Leech Rate will act as increase to %life leech for you - with 5%LL and 100% increased LL rate you will leech as having 10% LL (but only if you DONT have Vaal Pact). And the most inportant thing is Maximum LL rate - cause that will be your limiting factor most of the time, so take passives to increase it, they're worth your points!
If you perform slow and hard hits, and want still benefit from LL the most, consider getting Slayer class. His passives (LL doesnt stops at full life) give an edge to slow, hard hits, when it comes to LL.

"

MortalKombat3 wrote:

"

ChanBalam wrote:

And who devised such a system? :p

Yes it is pretty clear now. Jumping in and killing mobs has been life sustaining for my duelist. Now I see why. I will check on the "rate" language tomorrow and let you know.

This is my first really successful character and the life leech is a fun part of it. good threads like this have been a huge help. Thanks.

Actually, if you perform hits quite frequent, you shouldnt care much about life leech mechanics. You should know only that Life Leech Rate will act as increase to %life leech for you - with 5%LL and 100% increased LL rate you will leech as having 10% LL (but only if you DONT have Vaal Pact). And the most inportant thing is Maximum LL rate - cause that will be your limiting factor most of the time, so take passives to increase it, they're worth your points!
If you perform slow and hard hits, and want still benefit from LL the most, consider getting Slayer class. His passives (LL doesnt stops at full life) give an edge to slow, hard hits, when it comes to LL.

I hit hard and fast. I believe that I do have those points in my tree, but will check. I also have Resolute Technique, so I hit frequently :) .

"

adghar wrote:

First of all, your +40% is probably "Life Leech rate modifier," not an actual increase to amount of life leeched. (Re-read your character sheet carefully to double check this. Maybe you can surprise me!)

Clearly no surprise....You were correct.

Honestly, I agree with MortalKombat3. Like, I've done all these calculations, but I'm not entirely sure that they're all that useful. I mean, they probably helped original poster a bit, so that he gets what I mean by stacking leech effects and acceleration and all that crud.

But once you have the idea of acceleration down I'm not sure how useful it is to actually calculate the exact mechanics of your leech. You basically just have to know that if you have a good amount of leech (2%+), you'll quickly hit leech cap against crowds of enemies, but probably struggle against single targets. Also, the faster you Hit or the more increased leech rate you have, the faster you'll hit the leech cap (or at least, the faster you can accelerate). The higher your damage per hit and/or leech amount, the longer your leech duration. With those rules of thumb I feel like I understand leech enough - no calculations needed.

Based on the calcs I did previously though - there is one rule of thumb that might be useful. I'm about 75% sure that if you forget all the details, you can just take leech amount times your DPS to get your "top speed" leech against a single target. For instance, ChanBalam, assuming your 22,172 DPS is accurate, 22,172 * 0.04 = about 887, which is above your leech cap of 648. So with that knowledge, you know that you can reach leech cap against a single target in sustained battle.

"

adghar wrote:

Honestly, I agree with MortalKombat3. Like, I've done all these calculations, but I'm not entirely sure that they're all that useful. I mean, they probably helped original poster a bit, so that he gets what I mean by stacking leech effects and acceleration and all that crud.

But once you have the idea of acceleration down I'm not sure how useful it is to actually calculate the exact mechanics of your leech. You basically just have to know that if you have a good amount of leech (2%+), you'll quickly hit leech cap against crowds of enemies, but probably struggle against single targets. Also, the faster you Hit or the more increased leech rate you have, the faster you'll hit the leech cap (or at least, the faster you can accelerate). The higher your damage per hit and/or leech amount, the longer your leech duration. With those rules of thumb I feel like I understand leech enough - no calculations needed.

Based on the calcs I did previously though - there is one rule of thumb that might be useful. I'm about 75% sure that if you forget all the details, you can just take leech amount times your DPS to get your "top speed" leech against a single target. For instance, ChanBalam, assuming your 22,172 DPS is accurate, 22,172 * 0.04 = about 887, which is above your leech cap of 648. So with that knowledge, you know that you can reach leech cap against a single target in sustained battle.

And, in general, that is true. I can usually stand and fight most bad guys I've encountered so far, especially if my ancestral protector is nearby. It's when they run away and hit me with a powerful, but distanced, punch that I take damage.

"

adghar wrote:

Yes

Yes

Yes, you can do that. There is no known limit on leech rate....

Thank you very much for all that wonderful info. I'm a simple guy but i like to know what I'm doing and why it's doing it. It helps me better understand what I'm doing wrong. I've already re-jigged my skill points a bit and bumped my leech rate modifier and max leech rate up resulting in a remarkable improvement to survivability when fighting bosses in particular.

My frustration rate has decreased by 15%. My maximum enjoyment rate has increased by 9%. My over all headache has been capped at 49.2%, down from 84.9%.

I'm now 0.1% closer to being a demigod like i see playing in most YouTube videos.

The children of my village shall sing your name in praise for a long time!

"

My frustration rate has decreased by 15%. My maximum enjoyment rate has increased by 9%. My over all headache has been capped at 49.2%, down from 84.9%.

I'm now 0.1% closer to being a demigod like i see playing in most YouTube videos.

The children of my village shall sing your name in praise for a long time!

That's hilarious. Glad I could help!