Shape-shifting (Q\A response)

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When will you guys add Shape Shifting to the game?

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How would this work? We get this request a lot but whenever we discuss it, we can't really work out a good system. What happens to the player when they're shape-shifted? Can they use their regular skills? Would we need to animate the shape-shifted figure to have all the regular animations of the player classes? What if we just sold it as a microtransaction skin to cover these costs?

I'm not entirely sure what people are wanting from shapeshifting, but maybe have an idea on how you can save on cost, as well as make money in the process.

In terms of what happens to a player when they are shape-shifted, what if all players transformed into the same model, removing the need for things like mtx's and such. The shape shifting model(s) can then have specific skins that could be sold to change the look, like a white\black bear or something of that nature.

Could also make a female\male version, whichever class transformed just goes into its perspective model.

This honestly could be a decent idea to improve at least one melee playstyle. By shapeshifting you could limit yourself on what skills the player can use. Stuff like the traditional oldschool skills would really work well with this, cleave, ground slam and stuff.

Shapeshift itself could be a skill with various support gems that only work with shapeshift as well as others that are more universal.

Various ascendancy classes could get passives for these, I can see the 3 bottom classes (duelist, ranger, marauder) all getting an additional class just for these. Wolf for ranger, bear for marauder, ect)

Perhaps shapeshifting would have to be limited by various items supported by XX shapeshifting, most likely a chest or 2 handed weapon, so that you could use the setup outside of being shapeshifted or inside, unless somehow there is a way to stack skill gems, so that they can be supported in either form. (assuming of course shapeshifting wouldn't be something you would sustain)

The only "real" issue with this suggestion that is obvious to me is this does nothing for range or caster playstyles, so can't be an expansion really and its a whole not of changes I think just to implement, but man this has me excited just typing it.

For me shapeshifting = druid style gameplay from D2.

If you do have shapeshifting, people would expect a separate set of skills. That being said, I don't know if this game's current model of gem skill setting could even accomodate shapeshifting.

One interesting thing to me would be a character that can use normal skills in human form. (i.e. skills that are set in their gem setup)... THEN the character could have an option to go into other forms (typically animals) where their current skill set is nullified and a canned skill set is given.

Examples:

Panther: User switches to a cat - 3 basic attacks - Attack (sweep type attack with bleed), Leap (Cat pounce for mobility), and a movement speed boost while in cat form (i.e. 20% extra MS). In cat form however, all of your armor/defenses are nullified as they are associated with the human version of you, but you gain a perk like 50% chance to dodge spells and attacks.

Bear: User transforms to a bear - 3 basic attacks - Attack (Swipe with knockback), Charge (Charge forward knocking back/stunning enemies), Roar (Temporarily fear enemies and make them run from you). Bear would be tankier than the cat so it would have higher base defenses since it does not have agility.


^ This is what I think of when it comes to shapeshifting.

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Prisus wrote:

For me shapeshifting = druid style gameplay from D2.

If you do have shapeshifting, people would expect a separate set of skills. That being said, I don't know if this game's current model of gem skill setting could even accomodate shapeshifting.

One interesting thing to me would be a character that can use normal skills in human form. (i.e. skills that are set in their gem setup)... THEN the character could have an option to go into other forms (typically animals) where their current skill set is nullified and a canned skill set is given.

Examples:

Panther: User switches to a cat - 3 basic attacks - Attack (sweep type attack with bleed), Leap (Cat pounce for mobility), and a movement speed boost while in cat form (i.e. 20% extra MS). In cat form however, all of your armor/defenses are nullified as they are associated with the human version of you.

Bear: User transforms to a bear - 3 basic attacks - Attack (Swipe with knockback), Charge (Charge forward knocking back/stunning enemies), Roar (Temporarily fear enemies and make them run from you). Bear would be tankier than the cat so it would have higher base defenses since it does not have agility.


^ This is what I think of when it comes to shapeshifting.

Lets say they add in like another weapon swap, but instead of being a weapon swap its place for gems when you shapeshift, this still requires the same links as you have for regular use, but those skills are or could be disabled when you are transformed.


In regards to the examples, I guess you would agree that the classes should transform to the same model and use the same animations?

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goetzjam wrote:

Lets say they add in like another weapon swap, but instead of being a weapon swap its place for gems when you shapeshift, this still requires the same links as you have for regular use, but those skills are or could be disabled when you are transformed.


In regards to the examples, I guess you would agree that the classes should transform to the same model and use the same animations?

I'm not sure I 100% understand the second question. However, in terms of the first question I suppose it could be a weapon swap. To be honest, the method in which skills are selected for the alternate form could be anything. Weapon swap, seperate skill bar...whatever fits in the game design.

For me (this may be a minority opinion), my only criteria is that the shape-shifted animations (i.e. actually switching in and out of the alternate form) looks and FEELS different then your main form. Lets take my cat example from before:

If the weapon swap idea was used, I would expect all of my weapon etc from my main form to "Grey out" and go to an alternate skill set which may even include alternate gear slots. For animals it could be a collar, paw modifiers, tail modifiers (thinking outside the box here). You could also use gems specifically labeled as "shape shifter". An active skill gem could be "Pounce" then you could add specific modifiers to it that are tied to the shape shift.

Last thing anyone would want would be running Pounce > Faster Attacks > Fortify...because if you are going to use existing skill gem modifiers...then why even shape shift to begin with?

I hope I am explaining myself well.

Yup, shape-shifting IS a skill, it should include model (more elaborate graphics than with normal skill, yes, but loved by many, probably), and use basic attack supported by gems linked to shape-shifting gem, simple and doesn't need going overboard. Skill would work as steroid type disallowing usage of any other gem while shape-shifted and may disable some parts of equipment.

Other quite interesting shape-shifter would be a mage type, I don't thing I saw something similar anywhere else. Could work as a buff similar to RF, while having other downsides (one of being time limit and/or cool-down).

Even if it is hard to implement full set of animations those ideas are no different from adding a new monster (well they may need to be a little more perfected) since not many animations needs to be included (as a reminder: normal attack, or casting animation). And things like this fit poe nicely (piety for example). Also with things like this game gains a lot diversity, which stack overtime.

Personally I would try shape-shifter mage, has potential in my mind (but please don't go overboard with power like with almost every new skill you introduce)

Shapeshifting should be an aura skill.

So for example, Shapeshift: Werewolf would toggle like an aura, maybe even with a mana reservation. While in this form you could only use Werewolf tagged skills. Prevent the use of all other skills and then you would only have to do the basic animations for the character moving, idling, and using those skills.

EDIT: I would also say to treat it as a modified version of unarmed and not allow any weapons. Maybe the skill would scale like a spell so you could have a melee character who gains damage from the gem leveling.

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ggnorekthx wrote:

Shapeshifting should be an aura skill.

So for example, Shapeshift: Werewolf would toggle like an aura, maybe even with a mana reservation. While in this form you could only use Werewolf tagged skills. Prevent the use of all other skills and then you would only have to do the basic animations for the character moving, idling, and using those skills.

EDIT: I would also say to treat it as a modified version of unarmed and not allow any weapons. Maybe the skill would scale like a spell so you could have a melee character who gains damage from the gem leveling.

I don't agree with the Aura style game play. The fun part of shape shifting is swapping in and out. I would probably make it have a cooldown of some sort (i.e. once you switch you have to wait x number of seconds before you switch back)...I don't know about aura...maybe I'm not understanding this correctly though.

there are 2 aproachs for introducing shapeshift into poe


first one is not shapeshift itself but as a herald say "essence of rhoa". will reserve mana and hav no MTX, may be a change of color.


second one involves transformation, given poe lore and to avoid falling into werewolfs i would go with uniques or keystones that "corrupt" the char and turn it into something else.

we have plenty to choose from, from miscreations to merveil and it would be interesting if we could morph our char into those plus their graphics are already done.


balance wise be either essece or morph they should have maked pros and cons so people will have to build around them instead of treat them as an extra source of damage or defence.

pulling a random thought as an example equiping "x" unique turn our char into a burned miscreation

+10 to max fire ress
+xx fire damage to attacks and spells
-15 to max cold and lightning ress
can only use suports with the fire tag