[2.3] BigBun's Juggernaut Hipster Ranged Mine Build (Chin Sol Mine of Arrows) (Atziri down, barely)
 While everyone is manly with big maces you can be the little sissy one with a puny bow.. Current Status To sum up, this build is in quite a mess currently. Single target damage is decent but not great to do Uber Atziri, while running into middle of packs for trash clearing is also very dangerous (too many oh shit moments). This problem is inherent due to the Rain of Arrow mines not "targetting" monsters. So you would want to use traps - but trap cooldowns are so slow it too becomes quite dangerous. Adding more points into damage will jeopardize our survivability even more. The defenses look pretty good on paper but in practise I get hit often and alot. Currently, the build needs more testing as mentioned by cmphx, among many things is going noncrit bow build as marauder, which he has successfully done (see comment below, page 1). If this goes noncrit then I suggest you go to cmphx's poison noncrit bow build. He has completed Uber Atziri with Chin Sol puncture mines. If you like critting, hopefully someone who is enlightened can solve this slow pack clearing on a 4 or 5 link and upgrade this build. Introduction If you like: -Being hipster and unique: HEY DO YOU KNOW ANY JUGGERNAUT BOW-WIELDING CRIT MINE BUILD?! YOU COULD BE THE WORLD FIRST ATZIRI SLAYER WITH THIS BUILD -Bitching about twenty different Juggernaut Mjolner CoC builds out there (how many are there?!) -Being sickened by all the earthquakes caused by Juggernauts (too much is too much) -Overpowered bladefall poison mines and want to emulate that satisfying feeling of burst damage but you only have a Juggernaut leveled up -Complex and weird combinations of defense, some would even call it TABOOO - armour + iron reflexes + acrobatics (WOW I may be retarded?!), on top of evasion (blind), endurance charge physical mitigation, and some life regen -Every-trick-in-the-book offense for mines: Chin Sol, point blank, mines, crit chance, poison -Combine all these into a barely functioning build - hey but still hipster -Room for improvement (maybe it will be op, who knows)
Why Mines? Why Juggernaut?!
-This is a parody of bladefall mines build -This is a protest to Juggernaut only being CoC or earthquake builds Note: this build is not better than these, you have been warned. -I did not want to level a witch or shadow -Armour based builds do better this league than previous - namely Uber labs "Fuck evasion fuck this character - said a poor friend of mine who I tried to carry through Uber Lab and died to the rotating traps (he lagged though). -You can do trap version (just switch mine nodes for trap nodes), but I hate aiming traps, and trap cooldown can suck my big Jugernaut glutes. Do you want to do all these for under 1 exalt while being hipster? Doesn't require 6 link to enable this build - 5 link is working fine, and it doesn't require any expensive uniques, weapons, or ES gear. Build may get alot stronger with currency investment.
Achievement
Atziri done (1 death to trio) Up to T7 rare maps completed - somewhat slow clearing speed Disclaimer: This build is focused on being out-of-the-norm, it does okayish damage, decent defense - just all around workable (I need more time investment and your feedback to make it more powerful). Crit is definitely not as much as other bow-mine builds nor is the damage - for example, consult the legit (non-marauder) chin sol trap builds by r4wb1rd or more recently, danteis. There are many more who contributed, my apologies for not knowing the exact history. But doing this as Juggernaut is new, challenging, and is a fun project build. Okay let's get round to it.
Pros and Cons
Pros: -hipster Cons: -hipster -rain of arrows do not "target", only lands where mine is placed - some disadvantages -see the Current Status info in the beginning to see the shortcomings of this build
Requirements
Chin Sol bow 4 Coated Sharpnel jewels
Overview
Defense -Decent armour 10k unbuffed (iron reflexes), up to 22k with flasks -40% dodge, 46% spell dodge -Base 49% movement speed -Easy blind -5 endurance charges -About 4% life regen -Estimated 6.3k life at end game Offense -Chin Sol 100% more damage -Point Blank passive -Place 6-8 mines (two three button presses for clearing packs) -Some crit and crit multiplier -100% Poison on hit (4 coated shrapnel jewels) -Gain power charges easily through cwdt + blade vortex + PCoC -Gain frenzy charges easily through trap nodes while using mines Juggernaut defenses -Gain all 5 charges at once (when hit or enduring cry) -Double the body armour, cannot be stunned -No movement speed slow - 49% base movement speed
Passive Tree
Proposed Level 91 tree Put 4 coated shrapnel jewels in each jewel socket for 100% poison on hit Get more life (Scion life cluster) in exchange for crit chance if you need
Leveling
I leveled using bladefall and then self-cast discharge + righteous fire using 9 endurance charges and 4 frenzy charges. Then I used about 100 regrets to spec into this build (all the way from templar + witch direction to ranger and shadow direction). ... Yeah no, to level up this character I would just use generic melee and earthquake build, or firestorm or bladefall using twink gear.
Bandits
Oak - kill all - Oak (or max frenzy or max power charges - up to you)
Current Gear
I'm a poor boy and this is all I could afford yet Entry cost: 20 chaos for 5-linked Chin Sol 4 x coated shrapnel jewels (~11 chaos each) Other gears can be cheaply bought or found (about 40 chaos total approximately) Total 80 chaos Must get high armour chest (or armour + evasion chest) because high evasion chest does not increase overall armour as much (I don't know why, funny interaction of Juggernaut Unstoppable + Iron Reflex + Acrobatics) - the body chest I got was just a few chaos
Skill gem links
5 linked bow (can use chest): Rain of Arrow - remote mine - minefield - phys projectile damage - trap and mine damage For the 6th link: Conc effect (bosses) or increased AOE, incr crit chance or multiplier 4 linked chest (can use bow here if you use 5 linked chest for RoA mines) cwdt (lvl 1) - blade vortex - incr crit chance - pcoc Slot in ice golem somewhere on your unlinked chest or bow 4 linked gear (helmet) determination - enduring cry - Vaal Grace - increased duration 4 linked gear (boots) blink arrow - faster attacks - blasphemy - enfeeble (or vulnerability, poachers mark, assassins mark, temp chains, etc) 4 linked (gloves) Firestorm - trap - cluster traps - blind Other possible options: AOE clear: RoA - remote mine - minefield - increased aoe - (phys projectile damage or trap/mine damage) Single target: RoA - remote mine - conc effect - trap and mine damage - (minefield or phys projectile damage) Single target candidate: testing this for bosses: tornado shot - remote mine - minefield - phys proj - trap/mine damage -- seems to melt bosses (dried lake Voll down in 12 mines versus 18 mines for default setup) Annoying monsters that run around: Puncture - remote mine (maybe trap works better with this) - incr crit chance (or multiplier) - phys projectile dmaage - trap/mine damage As mentioned above, you can use all traps if you want (just spec into trap nodes, they are close to mine nodes anyways). I like mines better because of trap cooldowns omg so slow (especially because our damage is mediocre we may need many trap throws).
DPS screenshot and calculations
Unbuffed damage per mine
Buffed damage per mine
damage calculation
Were you really expecting a calculation from me? Here's some broscience: so we place about 6 mines (6 times the damage), poison 100% (I dunno how much more this is), Chin Sol 100% more damage at close range, Point Blank 50% more damage, crit multiplier about 300%. At level 78 right now (unleveled gems), its enough to one shot packs, about a few button preses for low-level bosses such as dried lake Voll. I'm sure it will get stronger after I level some more. But if damage is lacking, I would need to tweak my tree (need your help most likely, because I'm probably gonna spend it on all life).
Explanation of some mechanics and general gameplay
Defense-wise - Acrobatics severely gimp armour - so get the Juggernaut Unbreakable passive (double chest armour) - and we naturally use Iron Reflexes (easy to socket green gems this way through evasion gear) - This also grants stun immunity withouth Unwavering Stance, yay - By doing so, we can evade, so we can use blinding mechanism in hairy situations (worth it) - Blinding trap: firestorm - trap - cluster trap - blind (see a shit ton of firestorms in one press of a button) - Get high armour or high armour/evasion chest - cheap because we probably don't need 6 link, and we can get enough resist through rare gears elsewhere that you don't need GG chest. - Juggernaut Unstoppable (no slow) - good for Uber Labs, temp chain maps - Can still manage to get 10k unbuffed armour using determination, up to 22k with flasks (tank some Izaro hits) - (Grace or jade flasks give similar numbers) - Blashphemy-enfeeble just cuz need more layers of defense Charges - Endurance charges - yeah easy to explain - get hit or cast enduring cry - 5 nice charges (kinda like fortify cuz we cannot fortify) - Power charges - self-explanatory - cwdt blade vortex - increased crit chance - power charge on cirt (we use this because no killing of monsters required, good for boss fights) - Frenzy charges: how the hell do you get frenzy charges? So the trap node at bottom left (Master Sapper: 15% chance to gain a frenzy charge when your trap is triggered) is used with mines (we also have firestorm traps). How? Just place the mines on top of a monster, and detonate - the game think you just triggered a trap. I know it's cheesy and bugged but whatever - I'll gladly take 12% more damage, anything really to boost dps on this mediocre build. Gameplay - True to the Juggernaut, this build plays alot like melee (no added safety from using a ranged bow yay...) - Run or blink arrow into monster pack (our defenses help with this) - Place mines, 3 at a time due to minefield support gem. I like to place 6 (place at different locations around a monster pack if the pack is oblong shaped or scattering). Then detonate - make sure it's a firm tap on the D button otherwise there's a chance only 3 are detonated. And you'll have to press D again - it happens. - If there is any danger - throw some clusterfuck of firestorm blinding traps (11 total, 3 button presses). Enjoy the fireworks - the monsters sure do, their eyes got RIP'ed and now they are blinded. - If there is super danger - press the two defensive flasks for more armour and phys damage mitigation - If there is super super danger - activate Vaal Grace (about 75% dodge and spell dodge) - good for bosses.
References
The Chin Sol trap builds are not new - there are many who started and used it The recent Shadow Chin Sol RoA poison build by danteis gave me the idea and his passive tree and gear choices are reflected here Any tree improvement or other ideas are welcome. Build will be updated and currency spent if people are actually trying this build. But I am poor - so it will be hard to chrome stuff, 5 link stuff and buy expensive gear. But I will try for your enjoyment. Last edited by BigBun on Jul 5, 2016, 6:48:47 AM Last bumped on Jul 6, 2016, 1:33:09 AM
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Current Progress
Currently level 81. Merc lab run was smooth - boss down after a few rounds of placing mines (6 at a time) and detonating. Upcoming goal: Uber Izaro on current 5 link. Rare T12 maps on current 5 link. Atziri down - Atziri herself is pretty easy if you are familiar with the fight. But I encountered several problems during the run. 1) Placing 8 mines will not one shot Atziri or the split phase 2) Trash monster packs casting spark and dealing chaos damage were still scary even with the defenses. Especially when at close proximity to lay mines. 3) Died once to the trio because failed to kill the titty bitch first. Just hectic fight with mines (traps may be better). The problem with RoA mines needing to be right on top of the dangerous monsters or fast moving boss is evident here. Last edited by BigBun on Jul 5, 2016, 6:51:00 AM
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" Hey ! Actually yeah I know a build :p its non crit and uber atziri, but it is chin sol mines. Was a Champion, but any class is viable for doing it (Champion only chosen because of extra defense from fortify). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jAe82vDwPMo&feature=youtu.be :p Nice build. The Problem with RoA Mines is that they dont target, its a bug :(( they only rain down over themselves, unlike bladefall mines which target mobs. Thats a huge clearspeed limit. Oh you should make it more clear that yuo need 4 coated shrapnel jewels for this build, maybe link all of them in the gear section. It is barely mentioned and at first i thought you dont poison at all. A video would be nice :D RIP King of the Forest view-thread/1738625
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" Nice comments, added 4 coated shrapnel in the gear section. Also added RoA mines not targeting mobs (unlike bladefall mines) in the Con section. So blast rain acts more like bladefall (targetting), and rain or arrow and firestorm do not target (hits where the mine is placed). It is not a disadvantage to pack clearing but not by much since at least I know exactly where it will land. The damage seems a little lacking to do Uber Atziri - do you know if anything crucial passives or gear is missing on my build? If you start as shadow you get massive boost to crit chance and multiplier that adds significant damage. How does Champion deal that much damage? I will definitely try normal Atziri and post the results. I will do some videos in the future. | |
" RoA Mines would be fun if they would target and had bigger AoE. Have you tried switching minefield with Inc. Aoe gem? I suggest you completely scratch crit and go RT. I did that with my champion. Here is why: 1. Accuracy: Unlike bladefall, which is a spell, RoA can miss due to accuracy. Also it is rolled twice when critting 2. Low actual crit: Chin Sol is bad for going crit if youre not an assassin/have a 6L with increased crit strikes + a diamond flask. Right now your crit multi is supertinyy (247) which is not worth ~10 points How I do so much damage? Double dipping ! Pierce, slower projectiles, remote mine, trapandmine damage, frenzy charges all double dip on poison/bleed. Drillneck provides huge flat damage, evasion, life and 100% increased projectile damage which both increases the inital hit and the poison damage. yes 100% increased for both.. that is fucking op. Sadly, pierce does not work with Rain of arrows. Thats why I ended up not using it because scaling is so much easier if you can use drillneck. I guess a 6Link will help you the most. Conc effect is a huge damage boost and also double dips on poison. I also suggest trying added chaos gem, since most of your dmg is general projectile damage. The highest damage against stationary targets actually is with barrage mines that poison with 100% pierce and drillneck. Barrage+remotemine+TAMD+pierce+slower+addedchaos or physproj. . Millions of damage with proper gear, and works great with reach of the council. Edit: oh and swap out phys proj for slower projectiles, as this double dips Edit#2: To get a pierce build going, maybe iceshot mines would work? Edit#3: Oh, and abyssal cry linked with increased aoe, poison and void manipulation should help your pack clearing alotlotlot RIP King of the Forest view-thread/1738625 Last edited by cmphx on Jul 5, 2016, 4:07:22 AM
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" Good suggestions, I completely forgot about slower projectiles. I will also try drillneck with other pierce-able skills. Abyssal cry seems like no brainer - I may ditch the blinding traps and go this way. So going noncrit can still net you shit ton of damage huh? I thought the crit multi was what was needed for one shotting bosses. But I see your point, and I did spend alot of passives going crit - will definitely consider. Thanks for the valuable feedback - seems like I need alot more research on noncrit bow mine builds. | |
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Some material to do research:
https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1168762/page/1 A guide back from 1.3. One of my favorite builds. Maybe viable again with the new prolif gem or elementalist? Basicly the idea was burning arrow traps with prolif for aoe. Dunno how this performs today. https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1696139/page/1 My guide for a non crit top tier bow build. Remove 2 jewel slots and a bit of life to spec into point blank, clever construction and saboteur, and you have my chin sol mine build. RIP King of the Forest view-thread/1738625
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" For you build, the Berserker 40% more damage seems juicy. I have everything you have except Berserker passive and pierce damage and resolute technique (and maybe some minor incr phys and chaos damage nodes). As you know, my build invested on crit and crit multi (albeit not too successfully 44% crit chance 300% multi and 91% accuracy currently). The difference is quite evident tho. Im struggling with trash packs, Atziri trio, and lack of damage to 1 shot end game bosses while you can do Uber Atziri easily lol. What's your tooltip dps on chin sol puncture mines? I'm assuming you are going puncture - remote mine - trap/mine damage - slower proj - pierce - phys proj (or added chaos). Also, if you are using chin sol for clearing trash, what skill are you using? Mines and traps are horribad for general mapping (especially no cooldown recovery speed for traps) but this is the theme i'm sticking with and i'm hoping to get some working build going for all-purpose just with Chin Sol and under 1 ex total. Last edited by BigBun on Jul 5, 2016, 6:51:40 AM
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" Berserker's 40% more means 1.4*1.4 = 1.96 so almost double the damage a Champion has, because as i said, it double dips. It is totally unneeded for the trapper, but helps alot for my current build (LA noncrit poison). This 40% more damage is so good that it lifts just about any build into the viable region. DOT/double dipping builds benefit the most from it. Maybe you try to change your ascendancy into zerker ? :D Don't use minefield for bosses. It is good for pack clearing, but you will do way more damage with conc effect swapped in. Atziri boss fights usually allow for a nice prepare time to place all your mines (vaals need forever to come up, 5second before split phase starts of) so you can place all 6 or so mines anyways. Also a Vaal lightning trap again double dips ( 50%increased initial damage taken, 50% increased poison damage taken) and is additive with the vulnerability effect which you should definetely use. Going dual curse with Projectile weakness is also viable but expensive. So for my chin sol adventure, i used (as you guessed ) Puncture - remote mine- pierce - slower - Trapandmine Damage - PPAD. For trash i changed remote mine and trapandmine damage in for GMP and added chaos and "selfcasted" puncture with gmp, and used abyssal cry to finish packs faster. It is not very fast, but kinda safe for uber and i was able to do many deathless uber runs (though i only dropped masks and garbs :/ ) For trio i used puncture+trap+TAMD+addedchaos+slower+pierce because i didnt want to be forced to go up close and place a mine, then detonate. I prefer being far away from those scary fuckers :D And since they move around, the bleed does so much extra damage that they die very easily anyways. Since I had a 5g1b 6link, it was easy to swap gems as described. Edit: Also an Atziri flask and a Sulphur flask again add tons of damage. I think my puncture mine tooltip was around 9000 with the champion. I did all the math and ended up with over a million total damage with curse+vaal lightning trap I love mines/traps and the chin sol trapper i linked you was one of my favorite builds. Edit2: A few more thoughts/notes 1. Point blank is horrible for Rain of arrows. Compare this: https://dd.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/3xsvb7/rory_just_confirmed_that_point_blank_does_not/ http://pathofexile.gamepedia.com/Point_Blank#Projectile_attacks_with_AoE "Point blank bonuses are calculated based on the distance from where it was fired to the enemy hit." Meaning if mobs dont stand right at the mine itself, they wont take the more damage. DO NOT use it with RoA. 2. In my opinion if you want to make use of mines most efficiently, currently poison is the way to go. Ignite was the old way with prolif, now its poison thats easiest to stack. The way you do it is you stack as many double dipping damage modifiers and you ignore all the rest ( i.e. ignore crit). Meaning you get as much Trap/Mine damage (support, tree, jewels) Projectile damage (drillneck, pierce, slower, proj. dmg nodes) general increased/more damage (like Frenzy Charges, Berserker or Sulphur/Flame golem) If you only use these damage types, then every point/link counts twice (to the hit AND the Poison) therefore is superefficient and you can spend alot of other points/gear into suriviability. On top of that you can use vaal lighting trap (shock) and Vulnerability for extra double dippers "outside" your links. The more "outsourced" multipliers you get, the more powerful the total damage will be. Thats why chin sol is so good: Getting a x2 multiplier on the bow, x1.5 multiplier from the point blank, poison link "outsourced" to snakebite or 4x coated shrapnel, and lots of double dipping projectile/mine damage. It has a much higher top end damage potential than bladefall mines have, because there are alot more multipliers you can abuse. So this is the way to stack single target. Now how to get decent aoe? That is the most difficult problems for a bow trapper these days. The old way was using the insane radius of the prolif gem and stack ignite chance to get a huge ignite with burning arrow which is then spread out. I dont know if this still works. But i think there are other ways: 1. explosions Enemies exploding on kill is an incredibly overpowered mechanic. Currently only available on infernal blow, Obliteration, abyssal cry and occultist/gladiator ascendancy. It enhances your AOE clear by ALOT and can cause chain reactions, exploding whole packs after killing one mob. So one thing could be to abuse these explosions to add extra AoE to the build, namely abyssal cry. It works well with Berserkers 40% more damage, as it applies to the explosion as well as the poison it inflicts if you link it with a poison gem. The berserker node "War Bringer" is very good for this as it lowers the cooldown by alot and gives incredible mana/life refilling. Second option would be to go gladiator. This sounds weird and hipster because gladiator clearly is aimed at 1handed melee builds. But the explosions from bleeding targets works with bow skills just as fine, and you can make use of the spell block if you decide to use a rearguard quiver. The bleedsplosion is incredibly strong and helps alot with aoe. Luckily you get alot of chance to inflict bleed with the ascendancy itself, but bow users also have puncture ready to bleed a whole pack in one shot. I haven't fully tried a bow build with bleed explosions, but i can imagine it being incredibly strong (and hipster) as it adds an extra layer of aoe for example for split arrow+pierce or puncture+pierce bow builds. //Edit: Hmmm so what about split arrow bleedsplosion mines? :DDDD 2. Elementalist Speaks for itself, elementalist conflux+prolif adds AOE and clearspeed to just about any skill, so why not mines? however its extremely far away from your current skill tree :D I tried to make a viable bow trap/mine build. as I said i love it, but somehow its hard to find a good aoe clearing skill. RoA just doesnt do enough damage with drillneck not available. Maybe it does with berserker (i only tried using it with my champion). Maybe prolif works in some way, or the explosion thing i talked about. Maybe blastrain is alot better and you either go 100% fire conversion with the fated quiver, or still go poison and stack flat chaos damage with added chaos as a main source. Just some random thoughts. Edit3: Oh and thanks for mentioning my build in the first post :D Edit4: lol all these ideas your build triggered me :D These boots are insane for just about any projectile (bow) based trapper with bleed/poison. It gave me about 10% more damage in total. If you need more damage, maybe get a pair with high proj.dmg. Edit5: Also, why limit yourself to a 5L ? 6L evasion chests are really cheap if you buy them white: http://poe.trade/search/orasaamyekogug starting at ~30chaos,you can scour/alc or chaos spam them a bit until its decent RIP King of the Forest view-thread/1738625 Last edited by cmphx on Jul 5, 2016, 10:26:03 AM
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" Fantastic points! You sir are the master of the bow (tips hat). Doing this build has given me lots of lessons and especially valuable pointers and ideas you have mentioned here, all of which I think could be utilized in this league and in the future. The importance of double dipping and efficent damage types (phys chaos poison and possibly bleed) have been well noted here. I'll try these little by little and see if there is any potential for any bow builds for marauder or duelist classes. I love builds that work well for under 1 exalt, and this was a test (did so so), adding a 6link would be a luxury but not planned anytime in the near future. But I love how by trying a build like this it opens possibilities of new combinations of mechanics as you have suggested here. It seems like you have some new ideas (elementalist, burn prolif, duelist bleed poison, etc). If you would like to try them and want someone to test some things, let me know and I'll be glad to help you out. For now, I have the goal of leveling my (surprise) bleed poison earthquake gladiator to 100. Progress will come soon but at a slow rate. In the mean time, I'll be recommending your build for marauder-based bow builds 10/10. |
