Scion is extremely underwhelming in 2.3

I haven't used those ascendancies so I can't comment but deadeye looked kinda ridiculous to me. Using Slayer+Inquisitor on a bow build and it would be nice if the consecrated ground on kill was changed to be useful by making it appear on yourself instead of enemy.

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dudiobugtron wrote:

Want to run a crit melee totem build? Grab Assassin for the 1% base crit chance, and Hierophant for the extra totem in your BoR.

And if you are super cool - pick up rigwald's curse, ancestral bond, facebreakers and the new skirmish quiver to get 4 Ancestral totems at once - all doing full damage!

(Of course you can still use skirmish and facebreakers without Rigwald's Curse, but then you should pick a different ascendancy instead of Assassin. Maybe Champion so your totems taunt the enemy, and get fortify as well?

2.2 Scion was a huge mistake on ggg's part

unconditional global leech for 'free'? (free - not costing so precious moar-dps link). who of the 'theorycrafters' would miss it?

people are so focused on dps that they are going to do ANYTHING to keep their precious dps supports in their main link. and WM 'sucks' and 'is not worth it' because it removes dps curse option (getting +curses is also not viable.. the people nowadays)

people picked Scion just because of this one node. it was a braindead choice.

2.3 is still good. in fact i expect more and more players pick her the latter we are in the league (when people get bored with copypasted sh..). i have three scion builds right now and i will keep them as scion in 2.3 because the ascendancy points AND the tree placement make her the best choice for these builds



the issue of 'alternative start' remains tho. i saw a build that made it 'worth it' by saving 8 passives. but that was just one build. the concept is neat but it is just very difficult to do in practice.

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sidtherat wrote:

the issue of 'alternative start' remains tho. i saw a build that made it 'worth it' by saving 8 passives. but that was just one build. the concept is neat but it is just very difficult to do in practice.

Got a few builds that save a lot of points, but you know what bugs me - by not taking another exit I lose two jewel slots. I guess alternative starts would be more attractive if more good stuff migrated to the outside of the tree, it would also provide more distinction to the particular area of the tree but it might be bad in other ways.

Between the balance changes and the 8 points, It seems that every non scion Ascendancy has something that lets its players feel broken or OP. Maybe a couple things like that are lurking out there for Scion, but she deserves to give players this feeling too. Rather than have that feeling focused on one point, it needs to be about the combinations. To that end, I feel like they should sacrifice keeping the 'spirit' of the Parent Ascendancy and just shoot for fun.

For instance, Scion Berzerker currently:

5% increased Damage taken
25% increased Attack and Cast Speed if you've taken a Savage Hit Recently
10% more Damage
1% of Damage Leeched as Life if you've Killed Recently

Savage hits shouldn't even be a thing here. While it is core to the actual Berzerker, lets toss the flavor - the Scion doesn't look like someone interested in taking savage hits anyway.

On the topic of 'killed recently' how many builds would have less than 90% of uptime on this? I can't think of any. I know 90% uptime isn't good enough for HC, but not every node has to be HC optimized. In fact I'd double down on the recently tag:

Cannot be Stunned if you've Killed Recently.
1.5% of Damage Leeched as Life and Mana if you've Killed Recently
5% increased Damage Taken, 12% More Damage if you've Killed Recently

Just give Scion more passive skill points. We as players will customize from there.

currently:
Stat --> 1 passive --> Class ---> 1 passive --> class starting area

Suggestion:
Stat + 1 passive --> 2 passives --> Class ---> 2 passives --> class starting area + 1 passives.

means scion get 4 more points than now after merc Izaro. or 7 if she did End game izaro.

I have no idea who is the guy in GGG thinks 1 ascendancy skill point = 1 regular skill point for scion. It clearly ISNT.

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husyk wrote:

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TheAshmaker wrote:

The leech change was so detrimental it shows GGG'S lack of in game knowledge.

Honestly, the pre-nerf berserker and deadeye are exactly the kind of nodes scion should HAVE for ascendancies. The whole point of scion is to enable niche builds that just are not possible with any other class. And I think the option to get a free life leech gem or free pierce gem (albeit at slightly reduced effectiveness) is precisely what enables niche builds to function.

In perandus I had an amazing scion CoC build that just is not functional anymore without the berserker life leech.
I also had a really fun scion wander build that just is not functional with the nerfed deadeye passive.

In it's current state, unless your build goes full ES regen tank or needs absolutely all crit possible scion is just not worth it. And even then you can make it work with another class, probably better overall.

Please GGG, revert the scion ascendancy nerfs. With the nerfs to voltaxic spark (main reason people took scion in the first place!) these nerfs are redundant and unnecessary. That's the best thing you can do while you rework all the other scion ascendancies to justify picking them, for build enabling or build empowering purposes.

Agreed. Had a whispering Ice Scion and that node for the leech made it possible to do very respectable damage because i could drop the life leech gem. Now...not so much. Huge damage loss because running life leech over fire penetration is a must for bosses.

Also the alternative start thing is pretty lame too because Scion is already in the middle of the tree and traverses it the easiest of all the other classes.

I don't quite understand why some people keep mentioning alternative start. It is not that good. It never has been, not for Scion. The only way it can been good is if Scion's starting spot is not at the center but is at one of the edges.

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dudiobugtron wrote:

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dudiobugtron wrote:

Want to run a crit melee totem build? Grab Assassin for the 1% base crit chance, and Hierophant for the extra totem in your BoR.

And if you are super cool - pick up rigwald's curse, ancestral bond, facebreakers and the new skirmish quiver to get 4 Ancestral totems at once - all doing full damage!

(Of course you can still use skirmish and facebreakers without Rigwald's Curse, but then you should pick a different ascendancy instead of Assassin. Maybe Champion so your totems taunt the enemy, and get fortify as well?

If the idea of having really bad defenses and mediocre skill like Ancestral Bond is good, then that sounds good. It sounds like it is an inferior setup to regular facebreaker.
Ancestral Bond is a support totem to supplement your main damage. It is very inefficient to do this.

This game has always been about specialization, hybrid builds don't work and never has. Current Scion has no place, because she cannot specialize. Old Scion (Pre-Ascendancy, pre-2.2) had a place because she could do that. Every class was able to focus on something.
2.2 Scion had one build to specialized in, Chaos Spark, which is why she was at least good for one build and that is mainly thanks to Deadeye. Berserker did not matter, since that was just icing, not the draw. If you want to do anything else, she is crap.

And that has been the problem and still is the problem. None of her subclasses, outside of Deadeye are worth anything.

But I guess if you want to do bad builds, you can use her. You can also play a Scion without an Ascendancy and make it to end game too, but it doesn't mean she's good.

I think they need to go back to the drawing board on scion, come up with three cool ascendancy options to give her an identity. You can talk a lot about flexibility this and that but ascendancy classes have changed the game. When her nodes look like regular buffed up tree nodes, the only way anyone is going to pick her is when some of those nodes are numerically over the top (like we had in 2.2). Now all her nodes look like only slightly beefier Notables, which most importantly lack in the FUN factor when compared to complete game changes like wicked ward, ignore resists on crit, full endurance charge generation, explosions of blood from bleeding enemies, etc. Thos are the kind of effects that define characters now, and scion has none of them.

Instead of a new starting area, allow me to pick a 3rd sub ascend. There will be almost none situations where you want to start at a new area simply because she starts in the middle of the tree. It's already the most efficient place to become a hybrid character.

Simple solution, fits her as where everyone else has to choose 1 out of 3 ascend. She gets to "master" all 3 instead.