Tone down merciless Argus

It was so satisfying when that big brute dropped to the ground. The first thing I did afterwards was grab a cold beer out of the freezer.

I had to manouver through the entire labyrinth map, slaying monsters just to keep my pots up, while double hp Merc Argus was chasing my ass.

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Raudram wrote:

There's nothing challenging about something that oneshots you, outruns you and cannot be stopped in any way. He's just a mindless facetanking exercise for tanky builds.

the challenge is not having a glass build.

and it does not mean having 8k life but having a Build. character that has a balanced defence/offence ratio. it can be done even on archers or casters - but it means lower dps. and i know how difficult it is to let the dips go..

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sidtherat wrote:

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Raudram wrote:

There's nothing challenging about something that oneshots you, outruns you and cannot be stopped in any way. He's just a mindless facetanking exercise for tanky builds.

the challenge is not having a glass build.

and it does not mean having 8k life but having a Build. character that has a balanced defence/offence ratio. it can be done even on archers or casters - but it means lower dps. and i know how difficult it is to let the dips go..

Considering that I have picked every single HP node I possibly can (over +100% increased HP) and have HP on all pieces of gear I possibly can, as well as using jewels with HP, four endurance charges, arctic armor and two-use basalt flask, I do not consider my build to be glass cannonish at all. I also run multiple active defensive skills (blink arrow, enduring cry, smoke mine, ice golem) we well as CWDT with immortal's call and enfeeble.

Izaro is actually now fair compared to Argus, hell, even merciless Malachai isn't as bad, just tiresome.

I could get him down fast with my chaos assassin.
I could stay alive with my flicker slayer.
I could facetank him with my champion.

Where is your problem? :-)

My biggest issue right now is that, like Izaro, his health bar is MASSIVELY overtuned.

Why does he take longer to kill than it takes to blitz through the rest of the labyrinth zones?

And yes, his stats REALLY hamper a lot of builds. He's virtually impossible on Incinerate.

And before any other objections... Make sure you're actually comparing this with a character who is NOT level 90, has NOT gotten their mericless ascendancy points, has NOT been fed multi-exalt gear by another character... And in general, actually is akin to what would be expected had you played the game normally.

If looked in that vein, it's really bad that a mid-boss somehow has more life, has more abilities, and does more damage than a map boss version of them 9 levels above even WHEN that map boss has map mods. (and you'd not touched any darkshrines in the lab...)

That's actually the crux of it: Merciless Labyrinth is given the level of a Tier 1 map... But is definitely NOT for characters who are at the point who are doing Tier 1 maps. By the time you can readily handle Merc Lab efficiently? The rewards no longer matter.

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pajingtonn wrote:

I could get him down fast with my chaos assassin.
I could stay alive with my flicker slayer.
I could facetank him with my champion.

Where is your problem? :-)

Try less FotM builds, and especially those that are at a level where Merciless lab actually gives EXP.

You can over level it why don't you come back?

lol

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I_NO wrote:

You can over level it why don't you come back?

lol

That didn't make Izaro okay for you, as I recall. ;)

Plus, there's the whole point of... Sure, you CAN come back at level 90, with a couple exalts sunk into every gear slot, and then he's inconsequential.

Congrats, though; at that level any of the treasury chests don't give you shit worth the time wasted to pick them up. Like, "woohoo, a chest of tier 1 maps, this is EXACTLY what I wanted!" (Granted, GGG may be thinking that's the case, given how drops are in T15s...)

It's a whole "risk vs. reward" thing. If you're actually close to the designated level, Argus is way out of whack. If you instead come at the level he's relatively easy to deal with, the reward is zilch.

It's the same reason people hate maps like Desert, Dungeon, Jungle Valley, Terrace, Orchard, and Malformation. For >90% of builds, you're either too underpowered to reasonably tackle them, or you're past the point where the reward means anything.

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ACGIFT wrote:

And yes, his stats REALLY hamper a lot of builds. He's virtually impossible on Incinerate.

???????? wut?

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Try less FotM builds, and especially those that are at a level where Merciless lab actually gives EXP.

i did him at lvl 64. what is the big deal about him? 2h melee build (sunder), 3.8k hp and proper defences were enough

I don't mean to sound rude, but you should keep in mind that Argus is optional content, an additional challenge (!) to get more loot at the end.

If he appears to be too strong for your character, skip him for now, return once you have gotten stronger.

I am fairly certain that he is supposed to be as strong as he is now, even though I personally never had any problems with him, even with my first character in the perandus leagues.

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sidtherat wrote:

i did him at lvl 64. what is the big deal about him? 2h melee build (sunder), 3.8k hp and proper defences were enough

You were also so blatantly NOT self-found. Try NOT dinking around on Standard where you have tons of exalts' worth of gear, to see what the labyrinth is like when you AREN'T loaded.

The trouble I had was going in at low-70s, having only 4k life, 11k armour, around 500/sec regen, with about 6->15k DPS with leech. He STILL cleaves through about 2-3k life per hit through that armour + endurance charges + soul of steel, and basically that becomes a "run away after each hit, wait to regen for get in a little bit more damage each time."

When Merciless Argus has upwards of a couple million HP (rather than the 100-200k of Tier 1 map bosses) this gets horrifically tiresome.

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Jankalor wrote:

I don't mean to sound rude, but you should keep in mind that Argus is optional content, an additional challenge (!) to get more loot at the end.

If he appears to be too strong for your character, skip him for now, return once you have gotten stronger.

Did you not read at all? That's the whole problem with him.

"Return later" is pretty silly, when his reward becomes meaningless by level 70-75 or so.