Spell Support gems discussion

Hi everyone,
I would like to know your opinions on different support gems because I feel like theres is a lot of good supports right now and I dont know wich are the best. Ill list every spell support and ill say what i think is the best use for it. tell me what you think about it and if am I am wrong.

Considering we have :
-Added Chaos Damage: good for muti hitting spell or chaos spell
-Added Cold Damage: good for leveling only?
-Added Fire Damage: good for Physical spell
-Added Lightning Damage: good for lightning spell?
-Chain: good for multi projectile spell(like Etheral knives)
-cold, fire, lightning penetration: best support vs high resists monster?
-conc effect: a must if you dont need the area of effect
cold to fire: good for cold spell
-controlled destruction: really strong for everything?
-elemental focus: good if you dont need elemental status
-empower(level 3): good if theres nothing else?
-faster casting: Real good if low cast speed
-faster projectile: when you need range on spells(like freezing pulse)
-fork: i dont think it's usefull... mabe for vaal spark?
-greater multiple projectile: a must on certain single target projectile
-Hypothermia: good on cold spells
-ice bite: on cold spell, if you have no frenzy generation
-increased area of effect: only if you need area of effect(no i dont think inc aoe+conc effect is worth compared to 2 other support)
-increased burning damage: must if you build around ignite
-increased crit damage: is it a must when you build crit?
-increased crit chance: great with assassin shadows?
-iron will: I never used it... how good is it if you stack str?
-lesser projectile damage: not good enough, better go with greater multiple projectile?
-Physical Projectile Attack Damage: physical projectiles...
-Physical to Lightning: for physical spell
-poison: help me on this 1. I heard its good but I dont know why or in wich case
-rapid decay: a must when you have damage over time spells
-slower projectile: good when theres no other support gems to link with your projectile?(yeah i know its MORE damage)
-spell echo: need high cast speed to not get rooted
Void Manipulation:chaos damage spells

here is a quick list:
-Greater multiple projectile(a must on some projectile spell)
-increased area of effect(a must if you need aoe)
-elemental proliferation(must if you build around elemental status)
-faster projectile(a must if you need range on spells)
-increased burning damage(must of you build around ignite)
-spell echo(probably the best gem if you need cast speed)
-lightning penetration(must have on lightning spell)
-fire penetration(must have on fire spell)
-cold penetration(must have on cold spell)
-rapid decay(must have on damage over time spell)

everything above are musts on certain spells, from now on we are looking on what gives us more damage:
-Physical Projectile Attack Damage(for physical projectiles)
-conc effect(if aoe is not a problem)
-controlled destruction
-slower projectile
-Void Manipulation(for chaos damage)
-elemental focus(if elemental status dosent matter)
-Hypothermia(on cold spell)
-faster cast(if low cast speed)
-chain(if linked with multi projectile spell)
-added chaos(if multi hitting spell or chaos spell)
-Physical to Lightning(for physical spells)
-added fire(if phys spell)
-innervale(for lightning spell)
-cold to fire(for cold spell, and it's good with arctic armor vs reflect)
-added lightning(if lightning spell)
-added cold(if cold spell)
-fork

I have no idea where to place these gems
-increased crit strike (I think it's good when u can have high base crit)
-increased crit multi (need lots of crit obviously, but how good is it?)
-iron will (with a lot of str)
-poison (probably high in the list)
-empower
-ice bite

Tell me if I forgot a support gem, and tell me where to place it in my list
Send me your list from best to least support gems and tell me what you think about mine
PS:Im sorry about my bad english!

Patch 2.2
edited faster cast lower on the list

[Spell added since first post]
elemental focus
empower
cold to fire
Hypothermia
ice bite
increased burning damage
elemental proliferation
innervale
Physical Projectile Attack Damage
Physical to Lightning
Void Manipulation

"

dragonnexs wrote:

I have no idea where to place these gems
-increased crit strike (I think it's good when u can have high base crit)
-increased crit multi (need lots of crit obviously, but how good is it?)
-iron will (with a lot of str)
-poison (probably high in the list)
-empower
-ice bite

here are my opinions:

Increased Crit strikes now increases your base crit too. So it's really amazing for many crit builds. Top tier gem now I think.
Increased crit multi is a bit bad since most crit builds will have decent crit multiplier already, so the added bonus is worse than the multiplicative bonus that other support gems give. Does add decent damage, but not a top tier gem.
Iron Will is ok for leveling too, but yeah you're right it's only really great with lots of str. Not a top tier gem.
Poison is too strong for skills which deal mostly phys or chaos damage. Unless you have some other way of getting poison, you pretty much should always equip this on phys/chaos skills. Top tier gem.
Empower is amazing for spells *if* you can get it to high levels.
Ice bite is *very* situationally useful. Might be fun to make a build around it though.

"

dudiobugtron wrote:

"

dragonnexs wrote:

I have no idea where to place these gems
-increased crit strike (I think it's good when u can have high base crit)
-increased crit multi (need lots of crit obviously, but how good is it?)
-iron will (with a lot of str)
-poison (probably high in the list)
-empower
-ice bite

here are my opinions:

Increased Crit strikes now increases your base crit too. So it's really amazing for many crit builds. Top tier gem now I think.
Increased crit multi is a bit bad since most crit builds will have decent crit multiplier already, so the added bonus is worse than the multiplicative bonus that other support gems give. Does add decent damage, but not a top tier gem.
Iron Will is ok for leveling too, but yeah you're right it's only really great with lots of str. Not a top tier gem.
Poison is too strong for skills which deal mostly phys or chaos damage. Unless you have some other way of getting poison, you pretty much should always equip this on phys/chaos skills. Top tier gem.
Empower is amazing for spells *if* you can get it to high levels.
Ice bite is *very* situationally useful. Might be fun to make a build around it though.

First of all, ty for posting
can you explain why is poison super good on phys, chaos spell over elemental spell?
would it be as good as if id link it with an arc spell for exemple?

to the flat elemental damage gems (add chaos/ add cold/ add light),
besides leveling their use dependens if the spell you want to link it with has a high damage effectiveness, an example for a high damage effective spell is freezing pulse (125%) that means you get more flat damage out of them than listened on these supports, makes it even better if you allready scale with that element.

to conc. aoe/ inc. aoe,
if i use a spell that need one of them i swap usually for the other, an example for that could be firestorm while pack clearing you can use inc. aoe and when you encounter a boss you open your inventory and replace inc. aoe with conc. aoe.

to faster cast/ echo,
usually you do not use both (beside the fact that some spells cant be supported by echo) both have their own uses, echo raises the dps more than faster cast can do but you are rooted in place while you character is forced to preform the second cast, so if you want mobility over raw damage faster cast is the better choice, for why not use both, its not only about how many slots you have for your setup but also the faster you cast the more mana you need to keep that dps up that these supports grant.

to physical2lightning/ cold2fire,
while it is usually a bad idea to swap a portion of you damage to another, however some builds benefit great from them, physical2lightning can help as a solution to make your character able to do phys reflect maps besides that it can make your character (depending on setup) able to shock what can be further utilized for example to trigger Herald of Thunder and apply curses with it; cold2fire can make some nodes in the skilltree and also some item setups very efficient, for example the notable snowforged or the item rigwald's crest (especially when you pair cold2fire with the avatar of fire keystone), these item/ notable then count for double their worth in raw damage increase.

"

gwenZ wrote:

to the flat elemental damage gems (add chaos/ add cold/ add light),
besides leveling their use dependens if the spell you want to link it with has a high damage effectiveness, an example for a high damage effective spell is freezing pulse (125%) that means you get more flat damage out of them than listened on these supports, makes it even better if you allready scale with that element.

to conc. aoe/ inc. aoe,
if i use a spell that need one of them i swap usually for the other, an example for that could be firestorm while pack clearing you can use inc. aoe and when you encounter a boss you open your inventory and replace inc. aoe with conc. aoe.

to faster cast/ echo,
usually you do not use both (beside the fact that some spells cant be supported by echo) both have their own uses, echo raises the dps more than faster cast can do but you are rooted in place while you character is forced to preform the second cast, so if you want mobility over raw damage faster cast is the better choice, for why not use both, its not only about how many slots you have for your setup but also the faster you cast the more mana you need to keep that dps up that these supports grant.

to physical2lightning/ cold2fire,
while it is usually a bad idea to swap a portion of you damage to another, however some builds benefit great from them, physical2lightning can help as a solution to make your character able to do phys reflect maps besides that it can make your character (depending on setup) able to shock what can be further utilized for example to trigger Herald of Thunder and apply curses with it; cold2fire can make some nodes in the skilltree and also some item setups very efficient, for example the notable snowforged or the item rigwald's crest (especially when you pair cold2fire with the avatar of fire keystone), these item/ notable then count for double their worth in raw damage increase.

for flat element damage, I didnt know there was there was damage effectiveness on spells, ill do some reasearch about it.

for conc aoe and inc aoe, you are right, i forgot to type it, but of course if you use increased aoe, its a great idea to swap with conc effect during boss fight

about faster cast and spell echo, I also think spell echo is bad when you dont have a lot of faster cast because of the root in place even if its probably the best dps boost for spell. although I think faster cast does a significant dps boost compared to other supports and it synergyse well with spell echo, that it why I think these 2 are must for most spell.

for cold to fire, I think cold to fire is a defensive support synergysed with arctic armor, that is why i placed it low on the list. of course if you build around it, its a must gem in your build.

for phys to light, for physical spell, I though phys damage bonuses aply before the convert into lightning, why would it be bad to swap a portion of your phys damage to lightning?

"

dragonnexs wrote:

for phys to light, for physical spell, I though phys damage bonuses aply before the convert into lightning, why would it be bad to swap a portion of your phys damage to lightning?

it is not about the damage bonus it is about how resistances and armor works, also a high resitant mob is more common than a high armored one, so you lose some damage because of that.

"

gwenZ wrote:

to the flat elemental damage gems (add chaos/ add cold/ add light),
besides leveling their use dependens if the spell you want to link it with has a high damage effectiveness, an example for a high damage effective spell is freezing pulse (125%) that means you get more flat damage out of them than listened on these supports, makes it even better if you allready scale with that element.

to conc. aoe/ inc. aoe,
if i use a spell that need one of them i swap usually for the other, an example for that could be firestorm while pack clearing you can use inc. aoe and when you encounter a boss you open your inventory and replace inc. aoe with conc. aoe.

to faster cast/ echo,
usually you do not use both (beside the fact that some spells cant be supported by echo) both have their own uses, echo raises the dps more than faster cast can do but you are rooted in place while you character is forced to preform the second cast, so if you want mobility over raw damage faster cast is the better choice, for why not use both, its not only about how many slots you have for your setup but also the faster you cast the more mana you need to keep that dps up that these supports grant.

to physical2lightning/ cold2fire,
while it is usually a bad idea to swap a portion of you damage to another, however some builds benefit great from them, physical2lightning can help as a solution to make your character able to do phys reflect maps besides that it can make your character (depending on setup) able to shock what can be further utilized for example to trigger Herald of Thunder and apply curses with it; cold2fire can make some nodes in the skilltree and also some item setups very efficient, for example the notable snowforged or the item rigwald's crest (especially when you pair cold2fire with the avatar of fire keystone), these item/ notable then count for double their worth in raw damage increase.

actually i tested it out, ill have to lower faster cast gem on my list, when you get at a certain point it gives less damage than I though