Mistress of sacrifice is too powerful

Here's the easy fix:

Bone Offering now has "Minions Recover 8% of their maximum Life when they Block"

This is a Bone Offering buff for pretty much every Zombie build, but unless you have 8000+ Life it would nerf the solo Mistress block plan.

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

Here's the easy fix:

Bone Offering now has "Minions Recover 8% of their maximum Life when they Block"

This is a Bone Offering buff for pretty much every Zombie build, but unless you have 8000+ Life it would nerf the solo Mistress block plan.

That is not a fix, because you are thinking about the nod for one build, and for one offering....they way to fix it is to put a restriction on the node "x amount of minions to be active" or "x amount of passive points into minion nodes to be active" or "bone offering loses x amount of effectiveness for player"


I personally think its fine because like someone else said, the whole necromancy tree is focused around minions, people would be giving up a hell of a lot just to pick up one freaking bonus, which is hella stupid!

This nod is a godsend for srs summoners because it allows us to finally clear up sockets and ditch vaal haste, so id rather it not be nerfed, at least not the flesh offering part, don't really give too shits about bone offering...I knew it wouldn't be long before someone had to be a whiner and screw everyone over.

"

justinmm1988 wrote:

"

ScrotieMcB wrote:

Here's the easy fix:

Bone Offering now has "Minions Recover 8% of their maximum Life when they Block"

This is a Bone Offering buff for pretty much every Zombie build, but unless you have 8000+ Life it would nerf the solo Mistress block plan.

That is not a fix, because you are thinking about the nod for one build, and for one offering....they way to fix it is to put a restriction on the node "x amount of minions to be active" or "x amount of passive points into minion nodes to be active" or "bone offering loses x amount of effectiveness for player"

.

sounds easy , but it aint. because some one has to code that in. you need to keep it simple . hence why i suggested the blanket 50% less damage mod. less damage doesnt affect minions (because minions are considered separate entities) but would greatly inhibit anyone trying to cheese the block

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Astarte911 wrote:

TBH, your Damage wont be great. (290 Increased+150 from gear = 440%)

No crit and a full sacrifice of Ascendancy tree.

As a summoner, im not sure if block is necessary (since you have meat shield). As a self caster, you loosing so much damage by choosing Necromancer, that it wont compete with the more damage oriented build.

A pure Eva/Acro lightning caster with Pledge will reach similar defense values (not the spell avoidance, but 70% attack and 46% spell avoidance are really easy and cheap to achieve) with a lot higher DPS and a free Ascendancy tree

You have to balance off/def really good meanwhile, so i think in general, this is going to be fine, since you sacrificing a lot of offense for a great defense (that is also conditioned, 'cuz you have to cast it first).

there's 300% on tree + 40% from spirit eater (easy to sustain with offerings) +25% celestial punishment + 40% MORE from elemental overload (it has been tested, between main skill plus orb of lightning, 5% crit gives full uptime). You can also use flesh offering when there is no big threat around. Finally you can be very greedy with damage on gear due to how tanky the character is.

The max block part isn't even the biggest deal on the defensive side.
With 1200 hp on block and max block, mobs need to do at least 3600+ damage per hit after reductions to lower your hp pool. anything less and you gain more life than you lose.

Edit:
Even with the cheap 750hp on block. You need to be hit by at least 2250 damage per hit to lose life.

If this ascendancy tree gave more than just an 'easy' block to a non-summoner then I'd also consider it op (flesh offering is underwhelming compared to other trees), but like others have suggested you gain one great defensive mechanic (which you can get through gear anyway, at least a rumis) but gain basically nothing else, compared to choosing another tree.

If anything I do agree the whole life gain on block is the main culprit, but this is easily fixed: gain a % of life on block. For minions this will still be a considerable amount as they often have high life values (and it rewards some investment in life nodes), and can be balanced as to not give 500+ life on block to the player. Around half this value would still be worth going for but wouldn't make content so walkover. Not the only solution that doesn't gut the skill or gut players choosing a more creative way of using the tree (which is not without its downsides, you need corpses and need to manually cast to really get decent bonuses). Not to mention there are other viable tree alternatives, either for dps or defense.

It also depends on the league, its a great option for hc but sc stuff like assassin etc will prob see much more play. Summarising, at most a cap to life gain is necessary, I hope they don't gut the idea as it also adds more interactivity in a game that is usually 'spam one attack button'.

The main problem imo is that not all the ascendancy classes offer this kind of 'creativity/flexibility' which i think they should. Hopefully over time GGG will finetune the different classes to add this.

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justinmm1988 wrote:

"

ScrotieMcB wrote:

Here's the easy fix:

Bone Offering now has "Minions Recover 8% of their maximum Life when they Block"

This is a Bone Offering buff for pretty much every Zombie build, but unless you have 8000+ Life it would nerf the solo Mistress block plan.

That is not a fix, because you are thinking about the nod for one build, and for one offering....they way to fix it is to put a restriction on the node "x amount of minions to be active" or "x amount of passive points into minion nodes to be active" or "bone offering loses x amount of effectiveness for player"

I personally think its fine because like someone else said, the whole necromancy tree is focused around minions, people would be giving up a hell of a lot just to pick up one freaking bonus, which is hella stupid!

This nod is a godsend for srs summoners because it allows us to finally clear up sockets and ditch vaal haste, so id rather it not be nerfed, at least not the flesh offering part, don't really give too shits about bone offering...I knew it wouldn't be long before someone had to be a whiner and screw everyone over.

I don't understand why you're disagreeing with me.
1. Flesh Offering version of Mistress of Sacrifice isn't OP so doesn't need nerf. (Fun fact: you can only have one Offering active at once.)
2. Considering things like Rumi's exist, the only part of Bone Offering which could be hideously OP is Life gained on Block.
3. Zombies tend to have more maximum Life than players, so if Bone Offering is made into a percentage, the nerf can have less collateral damage.

For many builds, 8% is going from ~700 Life on Block to ~300 or ~400, effectively cutting the problematic aspect of the combo in half. ~700 Life on Block would be possible, but only with massive investment.

That's a massive, well-targeted nerf. If you think it needs more nerf, I say: let's keep it 50% at a time, people. Don't want to nerf things completely into the ground.

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SaiyanZ wrote:

You can just use Aeqis and Rumi's for replenishment and not have to sacrifice your Ascendancy class for it. eg. I have over 20k armour, 75%/65% block, 2k ES. The only investment is:

Plus Grace and Discipline auras and Iron Reflexes.

Absolutely zero pathing on the tree for block, armour, ES or evasion. Only nodes that were on my path were taken.

This is a passive and easy way to play too. No need to cast anything. Just hit flasks every few seconds while playing normally.

*just use* lol

I saw nugi talking about this, Im still not sold tbh.

If you are already a minion build its super strong sure. If youre not... well its not something you cant already do, for less of an opportunity cost than this brings.

My view on it, its not passive therefor it will fail. Thats my take, sure if you are a minion build you are so far out of the fight in theory you might go to 100 with it in hc. But if you want to get stuck in with mobs and you now have to cast this thing to get your defense on a timer measured in seconds along with giving over a ton of gear or also juggling a rumis? Ya it works, its super strong, and nothing based on having to micro that hard is going to have 100% up time. You dont need 100% up time, but imo its like the flask immune builds etc. They rant about flasks on the podcast too, and I sort of get it... but why do none of them have a lvl100 flask immune hc character? If flasks are that reliable, or rather your use of flasks is that reliable that it is as good as passive defense how come everyone isnt running around immune to everything always? Vinktars is immortal... k, well not when any of you guys are using it obviously, and not when Im using it.

I know what Im like on day 8 of 8 hours per day mapping at 3am in the morning, its not a state where I can be sure there wont be a fatal second where my flasks are down at the wrong time. Give me passive defense and a proper ascendancy any day over necro unless Im actually a minion build who has other benefits to all this. I run ci aegis and I spec 2% block on my passive tree.. thats it, thats the setup, dual rumis obviously, theyre nice situationally as flasks are. Thats all I feel like I need, what am I giving up for this? A passive point and 2 flask slots on a ci build that cant use life flasks. My whole Ascendancy + socketing a buffed offering that I have to cast every however many seconds? The price is too high for a mechanic like block which is just % chance to not get hit, if I write off builds that are getting 100% all ele resist + immortal call theoretical 100% up time on the grounds of excessive micro management required why would I then go and play a build that requires that micro just for block which essentially has a % chance to do nothing to help you?


I get that its good, and i get that while its not my play style some people will be fine with all that and do it anyway. Im not saying its bad because it doesnt suit the way i like to play at all, I have much respect for nugi etc if thats their bag great. But in terms of "is this over powered to the point where it needs nerfed?"... well from where im standing its not even good enough to use so obviously its not in my opinion.

100% of block applied to spells, passively, for a single ascendancy node in a subclass actually designed for combat? Now thats a thing I will be making use of some day, for sure, and when Im finished speccing i will have 100% uptime with no necessary micro.

flasks arent reliable though. to keep flasks refilled you currently need very specific gear and very specific builds (ie for surgeons)

theres no such thing with the offerings...sure, its micromanaging and not passive, but if it was passive it would be defacto the best node.

it's a question of investment, as usual. block is really hard to gather in current game, through nodes/items. this subclass provides it 'for free', pretty much, for the cost of micromanaging.

then you have freedom in a lot of other aspects (gear, regular passive tree, etc)

and block is just one thing. hp gained when blocked simply makes it absurd.

However, GGG keeps adding damage sources that completely bypass block, like corpse explosion effects, degens, ground aoes. Maybe the new traps? There seem to be more and more damage sources without the attack or spell keyword (no block, spell block, dodge, spell dodge, evasion).

So block is not as reliable as it used to be. For ultimate tankiness trickster may be the way to go, for that +60% to life/mana/ES recovery and/or base ES bonuses (possibly even stack with mind over matter effects and mana gain on skill use, using a movement skill to attack/proc things for 0 mana cost). With legacy blood dance on a dy'ness type build it's basically a node that gives + 15% regen, i.e. 1.6*(10.9 base + 4 ring + 8 boots +2.65 vitality) = ~40.88% (maybe dump the ring if you go for mom effects). How's GGG supposed to kill a build that regens 7.4k ES/sec on a 18k ES pool without basically 1 shotting everyone else in the game?

Heck regen tanks don't even need more regen. They can probably pick an ascendancy for damage and still be more death proof than a 75/75 block (with life/es gain on block) build.