With Assassin as an ascendancy option, how would CoC Quill Rain work?

I love the idea of using Quill Rain in a cast on crit build, however the 3.00 AS base doesn't make up for the 5% crit chance. With Deadly Infusion, 6 power charges bumps this up to 8%. I want to take advantage of the massive projectile speed, attack speed, and two Barrage jewels to make a CoC build with massive clearspeed. Will this tree be a good starting point? I feel like there's a lot of point inefficiencies between Shadow and Ranger but I don't know how else to get the bow crit nodes.

http://www.pathofexile.com/passive-skill-tree/AAAAAwYABAcFtQ2NDdEOSBGWFr8byCBuIXYj9iT9JpUqCy0fMHEwfDIBNj031DnUOkI6WEV8Sn1LeEyzTZJQMFFHVUtVxlb6W69d8mHiYetirGNDZ6BsjG1sb_JwUnpTfyt_xoPbhs6HdonTjAuMNo19jb-VIJXMl5ebJp2qoJ-io6R4shm0OLl8wTPB1cHzz3rP3dAf1CPbXt2o3vjjhOOf5RnnVOd06NbssO0_7g7v6_GK-_X8xf_e

Any suggestions?

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sherkhan wrote:

I suspect Ascendancy will bring with it changes to crit chance on the tree, or reductions in base crit.

Otherwise, path of assassin becomes a ridiculously high dps option with a lot of abusable low crit uniques.

i doubt this, or else the only way to go crit would be to go assassin. thus it really would be path of assassin.

i think assassin can add some great elements to uniques and builds that are not used right now, like CoC quill rain/barrage and crit incinerate, but it will not be the end all be all choice for every crit build. far from it in fact. most crit builds have enough crit that getting more isn't exactly the best option.

the added crit damage is pretty enticing though, but this might be the factor that gets tweaked when ascendancy is released, is my suspicion.

a CoC quill rain build sounds stinking awesome. CoC was the very first thing i thought of with the barrage jewel too. that just sounds incredible. so if you could make quill rain work that would be absolutely out of this world the new CoC go-to i do believe, since you also retain the range factor unlike cyclone. not to mention it would be soooo much cheaper.

i have a quill rain ready to go just in case this becomes a thing. i may need to raise up another shadow before patch just in case too.


edit: i think to get the most benefit with a quill rain CoC you're best off using projectile spells so that you can stack projectile damage and speed very easily. now ive actually never made a CoC build so i don't know what you usually do, if you add in some support gems or just straight up fill the rest of the links with spells but you could do something like this.

barrage, gmp, coc, arctic breath, freezing pulse, ethereal knives. could probably replace gmp with a support gem like slower projectiles for single target just for the added DPS.

a tree like this will give you 68.6% crit chance with barrage including assassin's mark, and 54% crit for ethereal knives/freezing pulse, and 37.5% crit chance with arctic breath. this is without considering any gear like maligaro's, rats nest, diamond rings or quiver. you could probably easily end up with almost 90% crit on barrage and upwards of 70% for spells. this is a lvl 90 tree.



take away the projectile damage nodes to add more defense if you want it. i don't care cause its standard.

Just use spark and EK. Both benefit from proj speed, you can use drillneck and take pierce on tree + uniq jewel. And you save gem slot on GMP, you dont need it if you use barrage threshold jewels.
And if you get rigwarld quiver for free fork, you can get even more clearspeed.

There is thread in scion section, even with videos:

https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1540317

that looks pretty awesome.

im thinking i might try this just for fun. except im thinking more along the lines of basing it completely around ethereal knives, poison, and dual curse.

with ethereal knives and poison you can double dip the projectile damage since projectile damage will also increase the poison damage and ethereal knives base damage.
so essentially i'd run barrage, CoC, EK, void manipulation, poison, increased chaos damage. grab up all the shadow physical/chaos nodes, the poison cluster, and projectile nodes anywhere i could. by using drillneck even without the pierce support you still gain 50% inc dmg to both EK and the poison.

with EK being a physical spell as well you also benefit from great flasks like atziri flask for even higher chaos damage/poison. not to mention all of the other benefits like hatred, HoA, taste of hate and of course vessel of vinktar.

with tree gear and supports i've calculated i can get +462% increased damage to the poison. this is insane. a crit EK with added chaos damage and atziri flask and void manipulation and one ming's heart i could potentially be looking at a poison damage of approximately 12,000 damage per second per stack.
this is not counting the stacks from barrage, which wouldn't be too too much but would still add up on single target im sure.

with the amount of crit you could get with barrage you could quickly stack up the EK poison stacks. say you could get like...i dunno...5 per second. thats still 60k poison damage for the first second, 120k for the second. so you'd be doing like 120k dps in poison alone, not to mention the damage from EK itself

edit: oh nm i didn't realize that unique fork quiver gives 50% inc projectile dmg. so literally no need for drillneck.

Thought of the same thing when I first saw Assassin. Instead of just theorycrafting, I also made an Alpha version of this character on standard. Had some gear and gems already there, so it wasn't difficult.

You can see my character: ErzaxScarlet

Instead of going the projectile dmg route, I took the phys dmg one.
Main link is: Barrage(Volley Fire)-CoC-Ass Mark(PCoC against bosses/curse immune maps)-EK-Bladefall-Chain(GMP against bosses, although poison could be better, haven't really tested that yet).

It does extremely well. So far with only 3,7k hp I was able to do most t10 and lower maps. Malformation is easy after some practice with the help of Blink Arrow. Need to drop some higher maps to also test them.

Thief's Torment plays a huge role. Not only does it solve all my mana problems, but also against packs of mobs, as long as I'm not one-shot, I'm prety much immortal.


The only downside so far are long streaks of non-crit or not hitting, which happen from time to time, but I'm sure, that Assassin will make it work smoothly.

I used to play Quill Rain COC like 2 years ago lol. I play with ARC and with really fun. For single target I do sth like barrage with LMP, Fireball, Arctic Breath and concentration. You can adjust the COC skills to be optimum to play with.

Back to the discussion:

I tried to look into the Deadeye's tree (ranger ascendancy class) seems there's are some option as good as Assassin.

Like, pierce increase projectile critical chance, chain/additional projectile, Proj damage, etc, accuracy also helps for a crit build.

I suck at math, would like to see if anyone can help to do the calculation about Deadeye VS Assassin Crit chance.

I'm 100% sure that you can make a working Deadeye CoC Quill rain. Depends on your build.
Probably good old fireball/arctic breath would be awesome with that chain.

The reason why Assassin feels kind of mandatory for my build is because it gives lots of crits, and CoC builds benefit from it greatly. Also, the more crit you get from your ascendancy class, the less you possibly need on gear, so you can drop for example Rat's Nest/Maligaro's and wear some rare items with hp and res.

Other important thing. Deadeye gives you chain, so you can drop it from your links (in case you were using it before, I am) and instead of a 69% dmg multiplier you can get something that increases your dmg, like controlled destruction. After this change your spells deal roughly TWICE the dmg, although they chain only once and not twice, so it's like ~33% more dps against packs.

On the other hand Assassin gives you a free PCoC - Unstable Infusion. With Quill Rain's low crit chance and high attack speed you are more or less guaranteed to have 100% power charge uptime. Plus some more crit chance and multiplier AND some even more crit chance from Deadly Infusion. In place of PCoC you can link, let's say, controlled destruction and get ~40 more dps against both packs and single target.

This whole comparison changes in case you were using Voll's chest or were going for Deadeye, but not for chain. That's why it depends greatly on your build. Also, while Deadeye doesn't provide any/much crit, it gives you some other needed buffs (proj speed, proj dmg, attack speed etc.).

can you make a working deadeye CoC build? probably, but it will be NOWHERE near assassin. assassin gives BASE crit chance per power charge, to which ALL of your increased crit will be significantly more effective.

should easily be able to grab up 6 power charges, thats 3% more base crit. as deadeye you only get 100% inc crit chance, so essentially an added 5% crit chance off quill.

lets say you have...+600% inc crit chance with 6 power charges which is not difficult in the least. with deadeye bonus you'll end up with 40% as opposed to 35% without deadeye bonus.
as assassin you'll end up with 56% crit chance.
not only that, but as assassin you'll also end up with 100% MORE crit chance (double chance) so if the mob is at full hp you'll have a cap of 95% crit chance, essentially ensuring you'll get one cast on crit for free. ALSO factor in the damage!. now since you're CoC you won't get added damage on full hp mobs with your cast on crit setup, because barrage will make them lower than max hp, but you still get 15% per power charge, which is +90% crit damage!!!! that is insane. better than a 20/20 crit dmg gem.

ALSO keep in mind this effect is the same with every spell that gets proc'd from your CoC. it will also have 3% additional base crit (and thus subsequently higher crit chance) and +90% crit damage

assassin wins hands down

[edit] lol, started writing this message but had a completely different topic in mind, had to erase it all...

In that case it looks quite obvious. You've got CoC which benefits from crit chance twice as much as other crit builds and an ascendancy class that gives you purely crit chance with some multi. Not gonna lie here, I myself am gonna make a CoC build AND use Assassin. This point is even more valid when talking about Quill that has such a low crit chance.

But...

Look at it from a different angle. There are already CoC builds (talking about wands) that cap the limit of spells per sec that you can trigger. In this situation Assassin is not AS obvious choice as it appears. Elementalist could be a great choice for smth that utilised 3 different elements like fireball/arctic breath/arc. In the case of Deadeye, well, first of all, it's a tree meant for archers. Despite that, it shows some potential for things like CoC. Whether it's better than Assassin, I dunno. But in case of some silly Quill Rain Spark CoC build it could truly prove to be as good of a choice. Proj speed is a stat that isn't shown on spark's DpS, yet it's vital. The more the better. 100% pierce chance at face and that +1 chain are mechanics also not shown on DpS. Yet it could easily double it's dmg output.

Not trying to overly argue here or something, but I feel it's still too early to make such a statement.

[EDIT2] Even the opposite. I like talks like that. Just keep it civilised. :D

Firstly, I would like to thank you Yordle and EvilChomsky here for the detailed guides with links below:

QoQ CoC (Quill on Quill Cast on Crit) by Yordle
https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1540317

Voltaxic CoC Poison Spork guide - Atziri viable, can run all map mods by EvilChomsky
https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1571076

By observation from their videos, the critical triggered spell rate seems satisfying in the current environment. In both of their builds, none of them are getting extra power charges from the passive tree.

One of the selling point of Assassin is we get based critical rate when we get more Power charges.

So my point is, do we really need to get the extra power charges in the passive tree? Will it be sacrificing a lot in order to get those Power charges in the passive tree (Its like far in the witch and templar area)? If the current critical trigger spell rate seems optimal, thus its better going other Ascendancy class for more Defensive Stats or More Damages Output (Elemental dmg, extra chain, etc)?

Both of them are Scion based, lets see how the Scion's Ascendancy tree goes.