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goetzjam wrote:
Not allowing legacy items isn't really an option though, you can't take someones previously found item and nerf the values on it.
Why not? They did that with my Incinerate gem as well... pretty sure they nerfed some items as well, by changing the way their mechanics work, no? Also wasn't Kaom's Heart +1500 life at some point?
Remove Horticrafting station storage limit.
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Posted byChar1983#2680on Feb 10, 2016, 2:37:37 PM
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Actkqk wrote:
It's funny that some people think that just a simple item prevents this game to be one of the best, but performance issues and imbalances mean nothing... Really funny.
Most of my friends quit because their high end systems GTX 970 and upwards cant handle party play without sub 20 fps. Fix the fps first over orb drops
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Posted byGGZII#1525on Feb 10, 2016, 3:07:00 PM
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Char1983 wrote:
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goetzjam wrote:
Not allowing legacy items isn't really an option though, you can't take someones previously found item and nerf the values on it.
Why not? They did that with my Incinerate gem as well... pretty sure they nerfed some items as well, by changing the way their mechanics work, no? Also wasn't Kaom's Heart +1500 life at some point?
Kaom's heart has always been 1000 for as far as I can remember (until its nerf obviously) If it was 1500 it was in a closed beta setting, which was clearly stated as something you weren't going to be able to keep.
Gems and items aren't the same, in an ARPG loot is basically "sacred" its important to note that GGG has many means to balance the game, one of the method is adjusting gems, trees, ect. But legacy items were from what we know now created because server downtime would be necessary to adjust previously looted items. The other reason is because loot is one of the aspects that is important to a player, you know when you start playing this game (and have any relative experience) that the tree and skill gems can change, gear not so much. We've seen HUGE backlash from D3 people back in vanilla when they globally reduced attackspeed. GGG isn't stupid they realize that a retroactive nerf of times, even if it is possible now without much downtime is detrimental to the players that have looted those items.
As far as changing anything but the item itself, including mechanics or whatever other interactions you want to claim, its all fair game. 1 thing, loot is sacred. (yes they nerfed ubergloves and rebuffed them and technically they changed the way CoE works) But even those nerfs, in 1 case was reverted were a mistake. In those cases it was changing an interaction, moreso then a value.
Legacy items create value changes, not interaction changes.
Anyway, I'm obviously not going to win the argument with you, seeing as you likely have 0 legacy items or very few to your name due to your start date.
https://youtu.be/T9kygXtkh10?t=285
FeelsBadMan
Remove MF from POE, make juiced map the new MF.
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Posted bygoetzjam#3084on Feb 10, 2016, 3:28:58 PM
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Char1983 wrote:
Why not? They did that with my Incinerate gem as well... pretty sure they nerfed some items as well, by changing the way their mechanics work, no? Also wasn't Kaom's Heart +1500 life at some point?
I wish it haved +1500 life, i like legacy items, hahaha.
Also:
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Rhys wrote:
"Legacy" items are a natural consequence of our implementation of the mod system. When a mod is rolled, the result is stored in the item. The maximum and minimum values are never used except for the initial roll and any subsequent rerolls (Blessed Orb, Divine Orb, etc).
This means that if we change the max/min values for a mod, e.g. the +life mod on Kaom's Heart, this does not directly effect any existing items, only new ones that drop or old ones that are rerolled. Another way to create legacy items (at least for Uniques) is if we add or remove entire mods from the item.
This also means that we do not have legacy items of skill gems or currency, because they do not have mods. We do not have legacy passive skill trees because we do not support multiple trees.
[Edit]Of course, if we stop an item dropping entirely, any existing copies of that item are essentially "legacied" too, regardless of the item's type.
So legacy items only happen when we make numerical changes to min/max values of mods, or if we add/remove entire mods from a unique. We do not create legacy items when we change what mods do (this is fairly rare, though).
If we really wanted, we could painstakingly go through every item on the realm and perform an "item migration" to update legacy items to their modern equivalents. However, this is something of a last resort; it has several downsides:
-it requires substantial downtime of the entire realm for an unknown-but-lengthy period of time.
-it requires manually looking at every individual item we wanted to update and writing a custom upgrade script for each one.
-any mistakes or reversals of balance affect the entire realm's items, rather than a handful of new items dropped between patches.
-pissing off often long-time players by (potentially) destroying significant wealth right out of their stash.
-we'd have to do it all again every time we made changes that would result in a legacy item.
I'm not saying legacy items are all sunshine and rainbows, but they are at worst a necessary evil.
+1 for Eternals back for sure because of reasons, that casuals and league players won't understand. It's called perfection of character.
And one reason more, i've found one before and was pretty excited, i want to find something more than exalt again (finding mirror is out of reality ofc).
Edit: goetzjam was faster.
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Posted byCRE_AGA#2318on Feb 10, 2016, 3:33:28 PM
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CRE_AGA wrote:
+1 for Eternals back for sure because of reasons, that casuals and league players won't understand. It's called perfection of character.
-1 for reasons explained in this thread at length. Besides, quite a few of the people arguing against Eternals here are not quite casual.
Also, I understand why you want Eternals back, I just don't agree.
Remove Horticrafting station storage limit.
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Posted byChar1983#2680on Feb 10, 2016, 3:47:14 PM
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Char1983 wrote:
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CRE_AGA wrote:
+1 for Eternals back for sure because of reasons, that casuals and league players won't understand. It's called perfection of character.
-1 for reasons explained in this thread at length. Besides, quite a few of the people arguing against Eternals here are not quite casual.
Also, I understand why you want Eternals back, I just don't agree.
Depends on how you determine casual or not.
https://youtu.be/T9kygXtkh10?t=285
FeelsBadMan
Remove MF from POE, make juiced map the new MF.
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Posted bygoetzjam#3084on Feb 10, 2016, 3:51:16 PM
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Anyone playing less than 8 hours/day is a casual and has no idea what they're talking about.
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Posted byDeletedon Feb 10, 2016, 9:06:47 PM
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Char1983 wrote:
True, though I think your numbers are off. Where I differ, though, is the conclusions I draw from that.
If you re-introduce Eternals without removing mirrors, crafting a 6T1 weapon (or 6T0 weapon) will still be more expensive than a mirror.
...
So if you ask me, the solution is:
- Forget about Eternals. They are not a good solution to anything
- Make mirrors lock both source and copy to "solve" the mirroring problem
- Re-work the affix system. Make T1 mods easier to spawn, and T7 mods less likely to spawn, thus increasing the power of the average rare and making it easier to produce top-end, but not 6T0 rares
- T0 mods can keep being rather rare, to make them special
- Increase the drop rates of Exalted Orbs
Actually, I don't think we differ substantially. I'm not really for reintroducing eternals while mirrors stay in. Mirrors would be a gauche design solution to a problem, but I think they were never actually intended to fix a problem, just to be something 'cool'. Not wonderful. Eternals in, mirrors out was the premise, *or* improve crafting in other ways. I don't actually care about logos and suchlike (I'm not here to discuss what GGG will like or dislike; that's their issue to consider).
As to making crafting more rewarding and intrisically fun through a reduction in the span of power between perfect and realistic? That's exactly what I argue for.
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Posted bydavidnn5#4453on Feb 10, 2016, 11:57:49 PM
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grant_m wrote:
Anyone playing less than 8 hours/day is a casual and has no idea what they're talking about.
So everyone in this thread?
https://youtu.be/T9kygXtkh10?t=285
FeelsBadMan
Remove MF from POE, make juiced map the new MF.
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Posted bygoetzjam#3084on Feb 11, 2016, 9:09:42 AM
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Char1983 wrote:
So if you ask me, the solution is:
- Forget about Eternals. They are not a good solution to anything
- Make mirrors lock both source and copy to "solve" the mirroring problem
- Re-work the affix system. Make T1 mods easier to spawn, and T7 mods less likely to spawn, thus increasing the power of the average rare and making it easier to produce top-end, but not 6T0 rares
- T0 mods can keep being rather rare, to make them special
- Increase the drop rates of Exalted Orbs
Here's my list:
- Keep Eternals from dropping.
- Introduce new t0 mods for local Fire/Cold/ Lightning Damage, for local Attack Speed, and for Critical Strike Multiplier.
- Change cost of Prefixes Cannot Be Changed and Suffixes Cannot Be Changed master meta-mods to 2 Divine Orbs (currently 2 Exalted).
- Leave Mirrors alone.
When Stephen Colbert was killed by HYDRA's Project Insight in 2014, the comedy world lost a hero. Since his life model decoy isn't up to the task, please do not mistake my performance as political discussion. I'm just doing what Steve would have wanted. Last edited by ScrotieMcB#2697 on Feb 11, 2016, 11:35:51 AM
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Posted byScrotieMcB#2697on Feb 11, 2016, 11:35:23 AM
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