Crit Arc build vs Iron will Arc build?
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And why?
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crit cause shock? Most arc builds in the witch forum tend to load up on PC and crit.
IGN: Arlianth
Check out my LA build: 1782214 |
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You don't need to crit to shock with Arc. Arc comes with an innate 10% shock chance, which stacks with Shock chance you can nab in the tree. It's kinda super easy to get standing 20% shock chance on non-crit Arc, which is plenty of shock chance to be getting on with.
Crit with Arc is difficult, because Arc has a low (5%, a.k.a. default) chance to crit. It takes a gad danged lot to build enough crit chance to reliably crit with Arc. You’re never really going to get much above 50% crit chance on Arc without the sort of gear a newer player is just not going to see. Yeah, 60% crit chance with 400% multi is Heaps Big Damage, but it’s damage that is also expensive as sin and requires you to sacrifice a lot of survivability you could otherwise shoot for in both tree and equipment. As stated in your other Arc thread (:P), the Templar-start Iron Will thing is much more durable. It’s not going to deal the same damage as an endgame, top-notch crit build because nothing does, but it’s more reliable and will cost you maybe a quarter of what the crit build would overall. Crit gear is crazy expensive because everyone and their dogs wants it. On top of that, Iron Will/Controlled Destruction gives you significantly higher base damage for your Arc than a crit build can sustain. Bit of PoE knowledge for you: “More” modifiers, such as the “more spell damage” on Controlled Destruction, are very much more valuable than “Increased” modifiers, such as all the damage on the tree. ‘Increased’ is an additive damage bonus that adds its given percentage of your base damage back into the skill, while a ‘more’ modifier is a multiplicative bonus that will also factor in all your ‘increased’ modifiers. To put it short: ‘More’ is always worth more damage than ‘Increased’, usually by a lot. The reason crit is so popular is because crit multiplier (i.e. how much extra damage you do on a crit) is a big fat ‘More’ multipler bolted onto any spell that crits. Controlled Destruction is a smaller ‘More’ modifier than a crit-stacked build’s crit multiplier, but it’s a ‘More’ multiplier that will affect every single Arc you cast, guaranteed. It will also increase your Iron Will damage bonus by that same ‘More’ percentage along with all your other ‘Increased’ modifiers, and as ZiggyD covered, Iron Will can be worth a whole lot of ‘Increased’. I’ve tried to play Crit Arc. It sucks if you don’t have the currency to afford really phenomenal crit gear to offset Arc’s lousy crit chance. I most fervently wish I’d gone the Iron Will route now and will quite possibly be rolling up a new Templar, or even a Marauder if I want to go full hipster, to try the Iron Will/CD approach. Well, when I’m done experimenting with Blade Vortex, anyways. She/Her
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" Oh very cool. Even run a totem build? How would you compare it to an Arc build |
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To clarify: a ‘Totem’ build consists of the Ancestral Bond keystone passive and, typically, a skill set up on a Spell Totem support gem. Semi-ironically, Arc is a popular skill for Totem builds. Be aware that Ancestral Bond eliminates any damage you youself do – you can’t so much as break barrels yourself, all of your damage has to come from totems and/or minions.
Totem builds allow you to dodge reflected damage (a huge endgame concern) because you’re not actually dealing the damage – your totems are. It’s also a generally more safe and mobile playstyle – enemies agro on your totems more often than on you, and once you’ve set your totems you’re generally able to move around as you need to and cast a couple of supporting skills as needed. Of the three general styles (Crit, Iron Will non-crit, Totems), the Arc Totem build would likely be the safest to play, but it’s also the least scalable/dynamic and probably the lowest damage. Crit Arc is your (hella expensive) glass cannon, Totems is the full-defense version, with Iron Will in the middle. Or such is the conventional knowledge, anyways. Searing Bond’s new freebie totem might well change the rules for Ancestral Bond builds since it lets totems defend themselves more easily and also helps burn down megabosses faster. Could even switch it up – use one Arc totem for shocking enemies and cleaning up incidental trash, then a pair of Searing Bonds with Inc. Burning and Rapid Decay to melt health bars. Totems is flexible, which helps it out, but it’s difficult to experiment with random skills on an Ancestral Bond build. It’s something I’d generally recommend for players who know what they’re doing and where they’re going, and who aren’t going to want to go “what does this gem do?” when they pick up a new shiny. No judgment – I still throw random skills in one-off slots now and then just to muck around, and my current lvl 44 Shadow in Talisman still hasn’t decided between running Blade Vortex or rolling with the new Chaos skills. Well, sort of. That Shadow sucks as a Vortex caster (Evasion/Acro is not not not the correct defense for a Blade Vortex character) and will likely default to the Chaos skills when the new Shadow spins up enough to take over Vortex. That Shadow, tellingly enough, is going over to the Templar area for extra armor, life regen, and survivability, and may well end up Iron Will-ing himself. She/Her
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PSA: controlled destruction is viable on crit builds.
The penalty is 100% reduced crit, not 100% less crit. If it's a 5 base crit skill your total crit chance goes down by 5%. Even in crit builds, in many cases you can use it and see a significant tooltip increase over most other supports. Never underestimate what the mod community can do for PoE if you sell an offline client.
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True, I suppose. But how many new players have the 50ex you need to get enough crit gear to go crit Arc while compensating for both Arc's dismal crit chance and Controlled Destruction's penalty, while also having non-negative resistances in Merciless and more than 2k life?
It's just not worth the bother. Yes yes, I know, Crit or Shit(TM), but you don't actually need 500k DPS to go endgaming with. Focusing on a balanced, non-crit build with plenty of life and armor is more likely to result in a character that can handle maps on crappy self-found loot. She/Her
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The way I look at things like Iron Grip/Iron Will is this: does this support outdamage whatever else I could be supporting this spell with?
Arc can’t benefit from projectile supports, and Chain is garbage for it. That mostly leaves indirect damage supports like Spell Echo or Innervate, with the exception of the new Controlled Destruction. Iron Will provides a not-entirely-insignificant bonus of 30-38% increased spell damage by itself, and does so with no mana multiplier so it’s ‘free’ insofar as your casting cost is concerned. All it does is take up a(n admittedly quite valuable) link slot, but once you get the basics in there – Spell Echo, Lightning Pen, Controlled Destruction – what else is there to do? Your +30 Strength chest is worth 6% extra increased Arc damage. Not a ton overall, no – but it really is a case of every little bit helps. Even with an entirely average and unexceptional 200 Strength, that’s 100% increased Arc damage, then 36% increased Arc damage again from level 19 Iron Will alone. That’s compounded by the ‘More’ modifier on Controlled Destruction, and also compounded by the cast speed and penetration supports. I can’t think of another support gem that would produce that much power, let alone without impacting the skill’s mana cost at all. If you can get to 500 Strength? That’s 250% increased spell damage on top of gains from your tree and other spelldam modifiers. It’s also 250 flat life, which is multiplied by your +X% life nodes in the tree. The only real downside to going for Strength whenever you can scrape it up is the opportunity cost of whatever it is you’re not getting. But things like a Heavy belt with a big Strength implicit turn directly into damage and random Strength rolls on whatever else you do is also damage. Don’t skimp on armor or resistances or the like for more Strength…but if you have a choice between life, resists and Strength or life, resists and Something-Else, ask yourself – is the Something-Else worth the damage and life the Strength would give you? She/Her
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" That's really good. Mine's only 6K DPS at level 15 Arc. I hope mine goes up that dramatically within the next four levels. |
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Here's my build: https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1511608
I'm using Iron will for that, and i have about 11k DPS with Arc using mostly garbage gear, and it works better than crit. If i had proper equipment like, say, PLedge of Hands that i need to complete my build, the DPS would be higher tier maps viable. Now as it stands, i'm mostly on 3-5 tier maps, depending on the mods on them. I managed to get lucky enough to get a 5 link staff from cards, used an alchemy orb on it, it's garbage but hey, it's 5 link so i kept it, and the gems i'm using in it are Arc, Spell echo, Faster casting, Iron will and Culling Strike. I switch between Iron will and Life leech as needed when some more hardcore mobs show up so i don't get rekt. Iron will enabled me to get into the lower part of the Templar tree with Strength nodes, for life and less mana cost nodes, making me more tanky and improving my survivability, while keeping the DPS high. Getting the crit nodes would require me to sacrifice HP for that, and i'd need to slot a crit support gem in the staff too for this to work... I'm also using Wrath and Haste auras. My mana regen is good enough, and Arc (as the result of taking "less mana cost nodes") is cheap enough for this to not be a problem. So i'm voting Iron will over crit. But that's just me, your build might be different. I also tried Innervate... Worked surprisingly well considering i didn't get any chance to shock passives, because arc will shock anything even if your chance is low. The mob density is high enough for even low shock chances to affect some of them. |
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