Donald Trump

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DalaiLama wrote:

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

So first, it's not like this guy escaped punishment.

"Taylor pleaded down to 'unlawful fondling of a minor' and served less than a year in prison"

Didn't know that. This refutes a lot of what I said. Clinton might not be such a bad lawyer after all.

Shelton may have cause to be pretty upset... but putting the blame on the defense attorney for Taylor's light sentence is ludicrous. She should be finding out who was responsible for that crime lab and their mismanagement of evidence. Those are the bad guys in this story.

Shelton is of course justified in being offended by the psych eval motion. But I don't believe any of us should be - again, consider the proper role of a defense attorney. If the judge approved the motion, I'd be angry with the judge.

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

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DalaiLama wrote:

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

So first, it's not like this guy escaped punishment.

"Taylor pleaded down to 'unlawful fondling of a minor' and served less than a year in prison"

Didn't know that. This refutes a lot of what I said. Clinton might not be such a bad lawyer after all.

She did her job (whether it was favor to someone else or she had no choice isn't clear from what I have seen so far).

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

Shelton may have cause to be pretty upset... but putting the blame on the defense attorney for Taylor's light sentence is ludicrous. She should be finding out who was responsible for that crime lab and their mismanagement of evidence. Those are the bad guys in this story.

The awareness of control of the chain of evidence, let alone all the precautions against improperly obtained evidence was nowhere near what it is now. This was less than 10 years after Miranda Rights came into being. I think in general it is for the better that they have made improvements and clarification to the process.

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

Shelton is of course justified in being offended by the psych eval motion. But I don't believe any of us should be - again, consider the proper role of a defense attorney. If the judge approved the motion, I'd be angry with the judge.

Clinton's scorched earth approach is now illegal in most, if not all states. 2 years after the case, Arkansas passed its rape shield law. The laws were primarily introduced to protect victims from being intimidated from testifying (some rapists chose to be their own lawyer, just so they question the victim themselves and could watch their victims suffer again on the stand.
Some of the questioning for rape cases became pretty brutal, and it wasn't uncommon for victims to prefer to drop the case completely rather than face their attacker again.

The second part of the rape shield law - was to prevent using the victim's past sexual behavior as part of the defense.

The "not asking for it", how they dressed and acted at the time of the crime and whether the victim consented, implied consent etc were still open.

There was quite a bit of legal wrangling as they tried to balance protecting the victim and protecting the rights of the defense to be able to question and cross examine the victim.

The arrival of DNA testing (~13 years after this case) was a huge boon to victims (and some falsely accused).

Hillary has tenacity, but IMO, she used her superpower for evil in this case. Had she honestly believed her client was guilty:

"Of course he claimed he didn’t. All this stuff. He took a lie detector test. I had him take a polygraph, which he passed, which forever destroyed my faith in polygraphs. [laughs]"

she could have made more efforts to withdraw from the case. Although it is almost unheard of now, 30+ years ago, a lawyer who genuinely believed their client was guilty could request
that another lawyer handle the case. If another one wasn't available, they might get stuck with the client.

Hillary may have indeed, tried to get out of this case. In terms of legal ethics - all her actions may have been justifiable under the bar at the time.

That still doesn't mean they are justifiable to the American people, and it certainly doesn't mean the American people can't find her actions reprehensible for someone who wants to be president.

IMO - this was just another step on her lifelong path of not caring about what happens to others.

It is consistent with Benghazi. It is consistent with Travelgate. It is consistent with her husbands sexual assault victim(s). It is consistent with how she treated Obama during the previous campaign. It is consistent with her email scandal. It is consistent with the ISIS debacle - latest leak on that here:https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/3774


It is consistent with her treatment of the "inferiors" around her (according to published statements from those who worked with her) Some of her choice "communications":

"Where is the G-damn f***ing flag? I want the G-damn f***ing flag up every f***ing morning at f***ing sunrise."
(Inside The White House by Ronald Kessler, page 244. Hillary yells at staff of the Arkansas Governor's mansion.)


'F**k off! It's enough that I have to see you ****-kickers every day, I'm not going to talk to you too!! Just do your G*damn job and keep your mouth shut.'
(American Evita by Christopher Anderson, page 90. Hillary yells at State Troopers after one allegedly told her "Good Morning.")


"You f***ing idiot."
(Crossfire: Witness in the Clinton Investigation by L.D. Brown, page 84. Hillary Clinton curses at a State Trooper.)

"If you want to remain on this detail, get your f***ing ass over here and grab those bags!"
(The First Partner: Hillary Rodham Clinton by Joyce Milton, page 259. Hillary shouts at a Secret Service agent.)


"Get f***ed! Get the f**k out of my way!!! Get out of my face!!!"
(Hillary's Scheme: Inside the Next Clinton's Ruthless Agenda to Take the White House by Carl Limbacher, page 89. Hillary yelling at Secret Service agents.)


"Stay the f**k back, stay the f**k away from me! Don't come within ten yards of me, or else! Just f**king do as I say, Okay!!!?"
(Unlimited Access by Clinton FBI Agent in Charge, Gary Aldrige, page 139. Hillary Clinton shouting at Secret Service agents.)

"Where's the miserable c*** sucker?"
(The Truth About Hillary by Edward Klein, page 5. Hillary Clinton screams this at a Secret Service agent.)

“You fu***ing (Anti-Semitic slur) bastard.”
(State of a Union: Inside the Complex Marriage of Bill and Hillary Clinton by Jerry Oppenheimer.)


Hillary Clinton: The Other Woman by Dolly Kyle, also alleges that Hillary used a similar racial slur.



"When are they going to get those f*****g ree-tards out of here?"'
(Hillary Clinton: The Other Woman by Dolly Kyle. Spoken at an Easter egg hunt at the Arkansas state house with developmentally challenged children in attendance.)

The whole system is rigged, folks: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jUDTcxIqqM0

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MrSmiley21 wrote:

I thought Trump won the debate.

I don't see what the big deal is about the comments he made 11 years ago.

The problem is that he described himself performing criminal offenses against women, thinking he can get away with it because he is powerful.

I honestly cannot understand how any sentient human being cannot be disgusted by this person. I personally feel bodily sick when watching that tape.

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MrSmiley21 wrote:

That's typical banter that heterosexual males engage in with each other.

No, it is not.

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Char1983 wrote:

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MrSmiley21 wrote:

I thought Trump won the debate.

I don't see what the big deal is about the comments he made 11 years ago.

The problem is that he described himself performing criminal offenses against women, thinking he can get away with it because he is powerful.

When directly asked the question if he did those things Trump responded,

""No, I have not"

at the ~15:54 minute mark here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6VRuHsmePw

(more on that later)

It wasn't power that potentially let Trump get away with it, it was fame. Power can sometimes carry fame, but nowhere near as often as fame does.

"when you’re a star, they let you do it."

While this doesn't pertain to **ALL** such situations, anyone that has ever personally had groupies knows exactly what Trump was talking about. It's more than implied consent, in many cases, it is aggressive behavior bordering on sexual assault by the "groupie".

Whether any particular encounter is consensual or not is entirely dependent on that encounter, and those two people at that moment. Just because someone is willing at one point in time, doesn't mean they are willing later. Just because one person thinks the other person is willing, doesn't mean the other person is. Just because an outsider thinks one party or the other was willing or not doesn't meant that was the case.

There are few objective criteria in these situations.

A more subjective criteria would be complaints, lawsuits etc.

As to what Trump talked about - many people interpreted it as braggadocio. In that sens, Trump was talking future tense, more than more than what he did.

It's like saying "I'm not afraid of bears. If I ever see a grizzly, I'm going to stick a fork in it's eye."

As to whether he actually did do any of those things - we don't have any real proof one way or the other.

When directly asked the question if he did those things Trump responded,

""No, I have not"

at the ~15:54 minute mark here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6VRuHsmePw

The questioning starts around 14:05
The moderator Anderson Cooper asked about Trump's statements on tape:

Cooper: "You sexually assaulted women, do you understand that?"

Trump: "No, I didn't say that at all. I don't think you understood what was said,."

(Trump goes into distraction mode - talking about ISIS)

He says he isn't proud of it, but emphasizes that it is TALK

"It's locker room TALK."

The moderator goes back to the question three times, trying to get an answer

Cooper: "Mr Trump, just for the record though, are you saying that what you said eleven years ago on that bus, that you did not actually kiss women without consent or grope women without consent?"

Trump: "I have great respect for women, nobody has more respect for women than I do

Cooper: "So, for the record you're saying you've never did that?"

Cooper: "Have you ever done those things,"

~15:55 "No, I have not"

There's the difference between Trump and Hillary in a nutshell.

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Char1983 wrote:

I honestly cannot understand how any sentient human being cannot be disgusted by this person. I personally feel bodily sick when watching that tape.

People react to different stimuli in different ways depending on their own biology, life experiences and personal perspective on how what they experience will effect the world they live in.

Some people get PTSD from witnessing a horrific car crash, other people can witness many traumatic events and not suffer PTSD. That people respond differently to the same situation isn't strange at all. It is part of the diversity of the human experience.

If **someone** (not directed at the post I am responding to) finds themselves experiencing severe physical symptoms from emotional exposure they should take a look at the symptoms of PTSD below and consider whether they should seek therapy. BTW- I am NOT suggesting or implying anything about your statements or reactions. IMO - the emotional response of repulsion when someone experiences one person harming another is natural and a good thing.



EMDR - Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing Therapy is a newer therapy that has proven to be very effective.

http://www.emdr.com/

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MrSmiley21 wrote:

That's typical banter that heterosexual males engage in with each other.

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Char1983 wrote:

No, it is not.

Although the degree of bragging, and the degree of vulgarity will vary - the overall tone is typical banter. Whether you recognize it as such depends on the base of your life experiences.

If Trump were a woman, and this were typical "powder room talk" between women, the comments would have the same range of vulgarity - from little to highly graphic. The degree of bragging about something that hadn't been done would probably be less and the degree of talking about things that had actually happened would likely be greater and the details more specific.

There are psychological studies on the issue, and the degrees of difference between males and females and theories purporting to explain why there is a difference.

There's an interesting article on the thought process behind bragging (which is essentially deception to others and self-deception) here:

http://www.sydneysymposium.unsw.edu.au/2011/chapters/vonHippelSSSP2011.pdf

You do, in no way whatsoever, deserve the name you have given yourself. You make me sick. And no, I am not ill, I am just a normal thinking human being.

Segments of Trump supporters are claiming Americans have 'too much freedom'. The crazy ass governor of Maine has also suggested Trump needs to become a authoritarian leader and remove checks and balances and take control of everything.

What the fuck is wrong with these people? Where is this sickness coming from. I suggest if you have any of these feeling you stop ingesting whatever sources you have been ingesting, you are being brainwashed, you are suffering a sickness.

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LostForm wrote:

Where is this sickness coming from.

Globalism has fucked over many people. The globalists refuse to fix the situation for the plebs, so the plebs arise. It's rollback time, one way or the other.

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Char1983 wrote:

You do, in no way whatsoever, deserve the name you have given yourself. You make me sick. And no, I am not ill, I am just a normal thinking human being.

I actually feel the same. I didn't even read the whole PTSD rant; I am a veteran and, entirely separately, had PTSD for decades (and maybe still, albeit so mild as to practically be cured) and using the condition in that manner made me literally throw up a little, so I just scrolled down.

I mean, I am on the side of "the tape isn't that bad." But I'm definitely not on the side of anyone who would use PTSD as a prop in their argument in such a manner.