Would like help on Cyclone/Blade Vortex Crit build

NOTE: build changed, see post 6.

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Hi all, I am still new, and I am not really 100% sure I am "getting" how to make builds.

This build is a Shadow, EK with Phys to Lightning to really make it a lightning build. I am planning it for next month when the new skill gems are available (namely, Bladefall).

The idea is high Crit EK with Phys to Lightning, with "cast on crit" Bladefall (which will also inherit Phys to Lightning if I am understanding links correctly.)

First, my idea for what gear I will eventually need:
Chest 5/6L: EK - Phys to Lightning - Chain/Faster Projectiles (swap mobs/bosses) - Cast On Crit - Bladefall (+Faster Casting)
Head 4L: Whirling Blades- Faster Attacks- Fortify - Phys to Lightning
Gloves 4L: Flame Totem - Culling Strike - Faster Casting - Faster Projectiles (this is for bosses mostly)
Boots 4L: CWDT- Inc Duration- Immortal Call- Temporal Chains
Shield 3L: Hatred - Ice Golem - Clarity
Dagger 3L: Enduring Cry - ? - ? (not sure what to put in last 2 slots)

Next, the tree:
https://www.poebuilder.com/character/AAAAAgYAaoz1b8gUotmw2Ba_t9lhBqk0SwrDOiSLD6u1SG1sz3qyGTIBmybo1iLqcFIqC_PqXfJw1YnTt9bbWS2osZCDCW-eykpfsJu1YeImlVVLjDZtGSL0bAuTJ1M1UEIsnESrVa6CEI-m37ATnqSRfjMdg5WHrJcwW3_GEFjk7HYRMjSX9FJTl5U9X0yz7-vQHxEPOw1-r92M2V_gEo0ZLX3BtO9QtYXlGbQ4-_WXl0V8akPAVAj0vOrA40tX8bN6U2HrbIydqjY9Yqw6WFXGg9tJsdfP-TfviM3qKji-gI2_BbXUIzpCS3jdqDBx5oHLvbALiFsfAgQH

Now, I am not sure I get the game properly. My tree has lots of points in Physical Damage (but NOT melee or projectile, just physical damage) knowing that the Phys to Lightning will benefit from more physical. Also, it has lots of elemental/lightning nodes to boost the part that gets converted to lightning.

Is this correct? Or am I doing it wrong? Any ideas for improvements much appreciated.

The first thing to know is that Cast on Crit doesn't work how you want it to. Cast on Crit allows supported attacks (like Double Strike) a chance to auto-cast supported spells on a critical strike, but this prevents you from manually casting those spells. For your links, then, I would swap Cast on Crit with Increased Critical Damage, since you have a heavy crit focus anyway.

For Whirling Blades, Phys2Light isn't really needed, since you're using it for mobility, not damage, and your dagger will likely be poor for attacks anyway.

For the tree, projectile damage works very well with Ethereal Knives, and projectile speed increases its effective range. The Sniper and Ballistic Mastery nodes are perfect for it. Another thing is that elemental damage nodes aren't that efficient, since you only have a 50% phys to ele conversion...unless you use a certain Unique item:


If you dual wield, you can hold that and a dagger, and get a 100% phys to ele conversion. (75% physical to lightning, 25% physical to cold)

Oh, I see, the first thing has to be an "Attack" and the "cast on crit" thing has to be a "Spell". Ok, makes sense, I knew I was missing something.

I changed my build to this instead:

https://www.poebuilder.com/character/AAAAAgYAaoz1b8gUotmw2Ba_t9lhBqk0SwrDOiSLD6u1SM96shkyAZsm6NYi6nBSKgvz6l3ycNWJ04MJb57KSl-wm7Vh4iaVVUuMNm0ZIvRsC5MnUzVQQpf0UlOXlT1fTLPv69AfOw1qQ8BUCPS86sDjS1fxs3pTYetsjJ2qNj1irDpYVcaD20mx18_5N--IzeoqOI2_BbXUIzpCS3jdqDBx5oHLvbALiFsEB7Gz7UGmf28IjAvssLl82HZHBuOEpzTAnPb8feMs4axmuT6OipfQ225W9XcHhxOcpP_eJP3nVFFHG8jb1JAbEZYOSJoTcFb-HcFJyNwwfHf9

This is more of a "Whirling Blades" build (its an attack), with "Cast on crit" of Blade Vortex (its a spell)

5/6L: Whirling blades + Faster Atks + Fortify + Cast On Crit + Blade Vortex (+Increased Area)
4L: Flame Totem - Culling Strike - Faster Casting - Faster Projectiles
4L: Hatred + Clarity + Curse on Hit + Assassin's Mark
4L: CwDt + Immortal Call + Molten Shell + Increased Duration
3L: Enduring Cry + Faster Casting + Increased Duration
3L: Ice Golem + Culling Strike + Minion Damage

The golem is for crits and the occasional cull, the flame totem is for bosses to cull more reliably.

Idea now is to whirl back and forth to build up Vortexes. :)

Thanks for the insight.

Looks plausible. Whirling Blades isn't really an optimal skill for Cast on Crit, but you can give it a shot anyway if you want.

For gems:

You didn't link an offensive skill to Curse on Hit. Are you planning on using Blasphemy?
Using Molten Shell is a bad idea, since you don't have anything to boost the armour gained from it, and Acrobatics cuts your armour in half as well.
Faster Casting doesn't work with Enduring Cry. It technically isn't a spell.

I don't think coc with whirling blades is going to work.

For coc to work you not only need a high crit rate but also a high attack speed. The reason for that is that you replace a selfcasted spell that is supported by tree and support gems on a spellcaster build by an unsupported spell on an attack build. If you don't want to have abmyssal damage you have to compensate for the lack of spell support stuff with a very high spell-trigger rate. That's the reason why spells with a very slow cast speed but high per cast damage are used in coc builds. You scale your damage simply by triggering those spells much more often than you would be able to cast them.

You can get several attacks per second with cyclone for example which will trigger enough spells per second to deal good damage. You won't be able to use whirling blades often enough to get enough spell triggers (it can only hit an enemy one time per use).

BTW we still have to wait for the exact specs of whirling blades to see if this is a good spell for coc. If it is a spell which can be cast very fast and has a low per cast damage, linking it with coc would make as little sense as using incinerate (channeling issues aside).

i gonna use it with cyclone cast on crit :) seems like best synergy to me

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i gonna use it with cyclone cast on crit :) seems like best synergy to me

Based on advice from you guys, I am building with Cyclone now as well.

5/6L: Cyclone + Faster Atks + Melee Physical Dmg + CoC + Blade Vortex (+Add Fire Dmg)
4L: Flame Totem - Culling Strike - Faster Casting - Faster Projectiles
4L: Whirling blades + Fortify + Mana Leech + Faster Atks
4L: CwDt + Immortal Call + Bladefall + Increased Duration
3L: Herald of Ice + Blasphemy + Assassin's Mark
3L: Enduring Cry + Increased Duration + Ice Golem

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i gonna use it with cyclone cast on crit :) seems like best synergy to me

This is best idea. Was looking for 3rd AOE spell to my combination and nothing with enough dps was actually available without discharge.

Crit novas + Phys Spell is the shit.r

Cyclone+coc+life leech+Blade vortex+discharge+inc. Aoe is the only really op alternative. If the Blade hits are spread out, it will deliver konstant max power chargé discharge with volls protector. In combination with volls devotion you get just as many endurance charges. If using hoi you can elemental equalibrium mobs with permanent -50 fire and cold res. Eg. 7 PC and 5 endurance chargé would give close to 4k base dmg with lvl 21 discharge.

If you wanna use vortex as main dmg source you will need duration nodes for max effeciency and use faster triggers than cyclone, eg. Barrage or KB, as you can max load up vortex, then flamedash into pack and instakill.