[Suggestion] Class Restricted Active Skills, Supports, and Items
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Spoiler
 people should at least wait for the release of this subclasses before screaming that they will kill divercity. to be fair divercity is a lie, most builds just look for rares with resistances + life or ES and skill trees despite having diferent bigging tend to all look alike too. self found league fan http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/324242/page/1 Last edited by caboom#7201 on Nov 27, 2015, 12:00:25 PM
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" Why is a class-restricted dagger that 58x more base damage than a regular dagger so ridiculous? Why isn't a class-restricted passive that provides 58x+ more block/spell block or 50x more resist penetration than a regular passive ridiculous? Never underestimate what the mod community can do for PoE if you sell an offline client.
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" If you cannot see that yourself, I truly feel sorry for you. The topic might be an interesting discussion once the ridiculousness is removed. Remove Horticrafting station storage limit.
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" Hey, another clairvoyant. The expansion is four months away, and people are assuming that sneak peeks that are seen now will appear on it exactly as-is, without changing down the road. The overall lack of common sense when it comes to ascendancy is pretty abhorrent. [s]only mindless sheep think labyrinth is OK to have in PoE.[/s]
okay nevermind labyrinth, fix dx9 blackscreen instead... |
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" If the class restricted dagger only did 3x more base damage than a regular dagger, would that be OK? You haven't quite explained why a class-restricted passive that provides 58x more block/spell block is OK. Please, feel free to elaborate/articulate your point and contribute to the discussion, rather than simply hurl insults / condescending remarks. Never underestimate what the mod community can do for PoE if you sell an offline client.
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Nah, I will just wait and see. As pointed out, the expansion is 3+ months away.
Remove Horticrafting station storage limit.
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" I think we all know why. " We don’t know if those things will actually exist. Yes, right now – months before Ascendancy’s release – they’ve shown images of nodes that offer some seriously heavy bonuses. Who’s to say those nodes will last? And even if they do? Let’s examine: Fortitude: Permanent Fortify. Awesome, right? Here’s the thing – everybody already has permanent Fortify. They put Fortify on either Leap Slam or Whirling Blades, which just about everybody uses, or add it to one of their utility attacks, and they thus set themselves up to gain permanent uptime on Fortify. Yes, the Champion Ascendancy makes Fortify effortless and gives you more benefit from being Fortified, but at the cost of four Ascendancy points another build might’ve put into offense. Versatile Combatant: Let’s disabuse this notion right now: max (normal) block chance is 75%. 75/58 = 1.29. In order for Versatile Combatant to offer “58x” normal spell block, spell block chance would have to normally cap out at 1.29%. So let’s get rid of that useless 58x number right now. More realistically: is gaining 100% of block chance as spell block potent? Hell yes. I personally figure it’ll be chopped down to 50% before shipping, but even if it wasn’t? As I recall there are builds which can already apply over 100% of block chance to spell block, and getting to 75% block chance in the first place already requires a great deal of build investment. This isn't "select one node and instantly gain capped block and spell block"; they still have to build heavily for block chance in the first place. And again - the node may not even remain by the time Ascendancy releases. Inevitable Judgment: Crits ignore elemental resistance. Okay, first of all, crits ignore elemental resistance. That lets out a good half, at least, of weapons/builds/skills that cannot, or are bad at, critting. No Incinerates here. Second of all, this one heavily emphasizes a focus on single large hits to maximize its effect, while the majority of current builds tend to go in for floods of pokes. You need to deliver big elemental crits for this to have any really intense effect, and how many Cyclone or Incinerate builds currently deliver big elemental crits? S’far as I know the Dischargers are it, and the Dischargers are going to be seeing the blood-soaked spikey end of the Nerf Tenderizer at some point here anyways. Beyond the Necromancer’s general existence, I can’t think of any other singular node people are going bananas over. Mostly they’re things which look fun to play with, and which may bring about interesting second-tier builds – Raider is the poster child for “interesting T2 build” Ascendancies, as an example – but nothing that’s causing a monstrous uproar. And yes – some people value having some identity, some flair, to their choice of characters. Clearly this is the case or GGG wouldn’t have said that a constant complaint directed at their game was a lack of cohesive character identity. Maybe those guys can have a turn, and if the uproar is too horrifying they can ruin the entire point of the system by allowing people to just buy Ascendancies on the skilltree later, eh? Again – the Ascendancy release is a coupleish months off yet, no telling where the game will be by the time it hits. What with, y’know, the entire 2.1.0 Talisman reboot happening between now and then, and stuff. She/Her Last edited by 1453R#7804 on Nov 27, 2015, 2:10:47 PM
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" " So we can't or shouldn't talk about something that will happen in a few months, because it's not fully known and/or unpredictable and/or could be changed/rebalanced... But having fixed/locked in ascendency classes permanently attached to our characters once selected is totally a great thing? Edit: Oh, a post appeared above me. Some nitpicks: " Except all those bow and wand users. " uuuhh, yeah. The 58x refers to mistress of sacrifice (witch ascendancy class passive). lvl 1 CWDT + desecrate + offering of bone + increased duration = 29% block + 28% spell block + 81 life recovered on block For 8.325 seconds, every time you take 528 damage. Up to 36% block + 35% spell block + 755 life recovered on block with a high level CWDT (or self casted), maybe 1-2% higher with +gem levels. Compared to a regular passive which provides 1% block (it's actually less than 1% block per point if you average them out and include travel cost). So yeah, an ascendancy passive being 58x better than a normal passive? Not rubbish. I was being conservative. As you can see above, it can be over 58x, especially if you pretend the link investment doesn't matter/ is inconsequential, like you did with fortify. It's not that important though, is it? I suspect people would throw a fit if a class restricted dagger was merely 3x stronger than a regular one. Heck, maybe even just 1.25x stronger would have people up in arms. But passives that are stronger by an order of magnitude, toootally fine. " Outside of flat reductions (like the legacy version of arctic armour), the DR formula for elemental damage doesn't care if the hit is big or small. If total aggregate damage was the same, a whole bunch of small elemental crits benefit just as much as one big elemental crit. Inevitable judgment is excellent for crit flame totem, since totemers don't do damage themselves (i.e. hard to use elemental equilibrium beneficially) and crit FT uses assassin's mark over a -resist aura. It's also a huge damage boost to the phys crit builds that use elemental conversion (which include many bow builds, melee builds, and EK). I know, I know, only cyclone, incinerate, and discharge exist. Total blasphemy to talk about anything else, or even think about how insane this is for pvp. Never underestimate what the mod community can do for PoE if you sell an offline client. Last edited by Vhlad#6794 on Nov 27, 2015, 2:57:36 PM
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" Sure, go ahead and discuss about it. There's a limit to what point you should talk about it to though; you and some others are treating the things GGG has revealed so far as things that are 100% going to appear on the expansion, unchanged from their current state. Although GGG sucks major dick when it comes to balancing the game, it's not like they can't see how game-breaking some of the revealed Ascendancies would be in the current game state. At least I hope they can see it. As far as Ascendancy being class restricted, complaining about that by saying "but then I have to play character X to minmax my build" is stupid as well. You have to ALREADY do that if you want to have the most ideal path in the skill tree for your build. Besides, with Ascendancy the situation might as well be this: character A having the most optimal Ascendancy class for your build; however, character B also has an Ascendancy class that you can use, although less optimal than character A, AND character B has a far more efficient path to reach optimal nodes for your build in the skill tree. Build diversity and choices, see? I could go on and on, come up with tons of positive things that Ascendancy can cause, but the problem is that it's all THEORETICAL at this point. And I don't have a problem with waiting, especially as I really want to see the 2.1 skill tree and get to testing the new skills that will come out. I'm a person who likes to thoroughly consider the matter before stating an opinion. And my current conclusion is that there is not enough concrete information out there about Ascendancy to discuss and/or debate over it even in a theoretical realm. But hey, that's just me. [s]only mindless sheep think labyrinth is OK to have in PoE.[/s]
okay nevermind labyrinth, fix dx9 blackscreen instead... |
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Perhaps if you hadn't started the thread with a display of extreme belligerence, Vhlad, you wouldn't have received belligerence in turn? 'Reasonable People' over in GD has stayed pretty calm overall, and it's talking about the same issue.
As for the block thing - if you want to spend a third of your Ascendancy and a 4-link on an admittedly impressive reactive block defense, then yes, it should be good. Same with Fortitude - I didn't mean to intuit that Fortitude was not awesome, I merely meant to point out that it wasn't particularly game-breaking given that many builds already enjoy perma-Fortify effects. We get it, man. You don't like Ascendancies. You want them free for every class, and to Torment with class identity. Is belittling everyone who feels differently the way to go about making your point? She/Her
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