Anger Aura with Flame Sentinel Spectres

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Zed_ wrote:

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starlight7 wrote:

Slower Projectiles has "more" damage, compared to Faster Casting's "increased" cast speed. Given that I have at least 82% increased cast speed (70 from Spell Echo, min 12 from the tree), the difference that slower projectiles makes in damage is large (on paper at least).

Practically, I don't find the fireballs missing their target.

I'm aware that Slower Projectiles is probably a better support gem for purely maximizing dps, that's why I said it comes down to playstyle preference whether you value that over being able to hit/kill things quicker after having engaged them.
The damage is not higher by much though with Slower Proj. When you already have 100% increased cast speed from tree and auras, 50% from Faster Casting is still equivalent to a 25% more damage multiplier (250/200=1.25). Spell Echo doesn't come into this calculation, being a multiplier.

Actually, the spectres dont have 100% increased cast speed, since they will only benefit from minion damage passives.

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starlight7 wrote:

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Zed_ wrote:

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starlight7 wrote:

Slower Projectiles has "more" damage, compared to Faster Casting's "increased" cast speed. Given that I have at least 82% increased cast speed (70 from Spell Echo, min 12 from the tree), the difference that slower projectiles makes in damage is large (on paper at least).

Practically, I don't find the fireballs missing their target.

I'm aware that Slower Projectiles is probably a better support gem for purely maximizing dps, that's why I said it comes down to playstyle preference whether you value that over being able to hit/kill things quicker after having engaged them.
The damage is not higher by much though with Slower Proj. When you already have 100% increased cast speed from tree and auras, 50% from Faster Casting is still equivalent to a 25% more damage multiplier (250/200=1.25). Spell Echo doesn't come into this calculation, being a multiplier.

Actually, the spectres dont have 100% increased cast speed, since they will only benefit from minion damage passives.

Also, i might be able to hit things more after engaging them, but if DPS is more with slower projectiles, then how will I kill them quicker?

Actually, now that I re-did my calculations (earlier having mistakenly classfied spell echo as increased), I find that faster casting is actually better than Slower projectiles in this specific case for minions:

Case I: No Quality, Lvl 20 gems

A. Slower Projectiles:
Increased minion cast speed from tree: 12%
Slower Projectiles: More: 1.29
Final Damage = 1.12 * 1.29 = 1.44

B. Faster Casting:
Increased minion cast speed from tree: 12%
Faster Casting: Increased: 39%
Total = 1 + 0.12 + 0.39 = 1.51

Similar calculations apply for 20% quality gems. Am I right? Then, I should replace slower projectiles with faster casting, even from a dps perspective.

Yep. Slower Projectiles is actually not that great when it comes to DPS. It works best when combined with damage that's difficult to scale (PA) or when you can actually take advantage of slower-moving projectiles to increase damage output in some respect (Slowed Ball Lightning does much more single-target damage).

Also, when it comes to using Conc Effect with Flame Sentinels, I'm not 100% sure all their fireball hits are considered area damage. The forking fireballs, for example, don't explode on fork, and therefore might not be flagged as area damage.

I find that Gmp has a much faster clear speed then conc or sl proj. and run faster cast if not running rarity

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XCodesLIVE wrote:

The forking fireballs, for example, don't explode on fork, and therefore might not be flagged as area damage.

Yeah their fireballs have to explode to deal area damage, just like regular fireballs. And they only explode when they "end", so hits that fork, pierce or chain wont deal area damage and so wont take advantage of conc effect.

Since this topic is essentially "support for flame sentinels" now, a setup I used back when I prefered sentinels was spectre - minion dmg - spell echo - fire pen - power charge on crit - critical dmg.

I'm fairly certain flame sentinels has 6% base crit chance, 130% base crit multi and gets 200% inc crit chance per power charge, resulting in the last two supports granting 85% more dmg combined (when fully charged): (1+(0.06*7*(1.3*1.7)))-(1+0.06*1.3)=0.85

The math is kinda hard to verify with how little minion info we are exposed to but I played with this setup for a while and I found it cleared pretty good (wth 5 spectres) while having much better single-target, especially with assassin's mark which doesn't do much for summoners ordinarily.

Probably not optimal though.

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starlight7 wrote:

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kreca73 wrote:

why would you use conc. eff?

AFAIK, fireball has a area of effect where it hits. The area is small, which means increased AOE does not help too much.

Rather, you use Conc. Effect, and increase the damage substantially. Particularly in cases where it matters (blue / yellow / unique monsters).

I am able to one-shot most white mobs after a recent change to my skill tree where I added two minion damage nodes (to now have all damage nodes) and added three jewels with minion damage to have a total of 162% increased damage from my passive skill tree.

Most gems are zero quality with lvl 19 on most, except for slower proj. which is lvl 16. Slotted it after 2.0.0 instead of faster casting.

Is the logic with Conc. effect wrong? Read it on the forums long back. IDK if anything has changed.

not sure but as far as i know, the fireball doesn't hit with the projectile+AoE from the projectile the same target. its AoE would hit only the targets around the mob hit by the proj and since you conc. it, the AoE effect would almost never hit another adiacent mob.

if it works like you say, then it makes sense to use conc for more single target dmg.