Mandatory military service

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MatarInExile wrote:

Unwillingness to serve is even worse. It's the willingness to obey that is the problem. When it comes to the military it comes down to understanding the unfortunate situation the world is in. Don't let George Bush ruin the defense of democracy.

By reading the OP I presume that Greece is not something worthy of defending, or the world is in peace.

Myself, I was in a world of shit at the time I was drafted so I was excused. Today I believe it would have saved me earlier than I was saved by myself. Today I regret not going.

Go do it! Learn about a world in conflict, your country, get stronger and make friends. It's fundamental to our democracies that we do not pursue war because the people do not want to get slaughtered in stupid wars as in older times. Go find out.

I met a who served. He was all messed up talking about the shit people do to each other in Afghanistan (non of us american). Really messed up! I wished this guy would have brought back understanding after seeing the abyss of humanity. Problem is, he was never thought that, because he was expected to obey the propaganda.

Did you use google translate to make this post? I have absolutely no idea what you're trying to say here. Some sentences sound like you served and recommend it, other that you didn't but think others should. Learning about world in conflict? Not sure an underfunded bootcamp followed by nothing else is needed for that. One can make friends in other places as well.

He's supposed to go and find out we shouldn't pursue war? Because he doesn't have any other way of knowing that?

Mate, are you drunk? What the fuck are you trying to communicate here? If english is not your first language it is highly advisable to avoid big words and pompous phrases because that can lead to a slight misunderstanding.

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JohnGrammaticus wrote:

Aaah, mandatory army, we used to have that here too in my undisclosed eastern european country. The only way of avoiding it was to enroll to a college/university and I was there in an instant. Barely made it since the army was especially interested in me for some reason and I passed physical flawlessly despite the fact that I was horribly stoned during the tests.

Not that I don't like the army, but the mandatory reserve was always 9 months of being shouted at and drinking when the co's were not watching. Total of 30 rounds fired during these 9 months on average, no real skills to acquire so I bailed out.

It went away a few years back (10 maybe?) but I am willing to bet that the army was a sole reason why 95% of young males decides to at least pretend to study at an uni after high school.

I also helped my father to dodge his service during the communist days by the act of being born haha. This made him a legit sole provider for a family so he got away with it as well.

I remember many, many parents bribing doctors into certifying fake illnesses that would spare their kids from the draft, it was a small industry.

Almost identical to the situatin here, only here is worse. Enrolling to a university, like i did, only suspended the service for 8 years. You still have to serve. And here is impossible to bribe doctors into certifying fake illnesses. You still have to be examined by military doctors, and these cannot be bribed. What you can do is to fake mental ilnesses. You still have to be examined by military psychatrists, but even if they suspect you are lying(and they always do), when you tell them that you are not well and you will start killing people by the time you get near a gun, they tend to not take the risk. However this has consequences as well, as i described in an earlier post. The other option is to just live abroad until you are 35(you won't be allowed access to Greek soil for more than 2 weeks per year), and then buy off the service at around 7000 euros. Not much of an option either.

As to my general opinion on the army and wars in general, it is well expressed on several Bob Dylan songs.

No, no, nobody bribes military doctors, it's done the long way round. You get yourself certified for a rare disease of some sorts at a regular doctor, pick something that makes you unable to serve but is not easy to evaluate on the spot and then you provide all the documentation to the military doctors - that's how it was done here. People claimed to have all types of bizarre illnesses, military knew they were bogus but had no means of verifying that.

Here the military does not even accept papers from doctors outside public hospitals, and it is very very very hard to get an official "fake" diagnosis from a public hospital. You should be very well connected. Your medical history is open for everyone to see, and in case of frad the doctor loses his licece for life. Plus you are marked for life with something permanent for all your future job applications. AND YET, even if you manage to get a oficial diagnosis, if the "ilness" is not permanent, you just get an extension of your suspension and have to serve later. Even if you have cancer, if you are treated sucessfully, then you will have to serve :P It's lunacy really.

I would say that 99% of service exceptions for physical medical conditions are legit here, while 90% of exemptions due to mental medical conditions are fake.

Well then that's fucked.
Is the greek reserve even worth anything? I mean do you get to learn anything there, either shooting or truck drivers license or something? When I was younger I was tempted to tke on the draft until I learned that there's not much military stuff they teach, not even how to shoot properly.

The part that is most stupid to me is the fact that they draft 26 year olds. I mean boot camp is supposed to form a young mind into something, doesn't go that well with adults which is why it's not done in many countries unless there's imminent war. Who in their right mind would say "sir" to a corporal barely out of high school.

Reading the OP gave me anxiety. Thats a bad situation man, my sympathies.

After some reading on the topic it sounds like a bit of a clusterfuck. Wikipedia mentioned how it at least used to be a "right of passage" in the past but in recent decades more of society has grown opposed to it and attempts to opt out are common.

Yeah, someone should do a study about the relationship between people having that viewpoint and also having plans for their lives. Being in the military by choice in concept is a pretty honorable path and is a right of passage for those that do it but...making it mandatory is just forced dedication and is not genuine by nature.

I mean shit here in the US Ive got a friend who really wanted to go into the service (special forces too, dude was pretty gung ho on it), and even though he WANTED to do it it, it turned out to be too much of a detour of his current life to go through with it.

Also came across a mention of an opt out that requires 45 days of training and 8505 euros to complete. 8505 at $1.14 per in conversion is just under 9700 fucking bucks which is a pretty fat hand of cash for just anybody to get out of something so life derailing for those who have plans otherwise, and faking some kind of condition sounds daunting unless you go the extreme routes (like claiming to be mentally unstable/violent which has its own negative repercussions). Faking something physical is just about impossible with doctors who cant be bribed, unless you just claim to be in crazy pain somehow which would need you to be a good actor with consistency.

Time for a loophole hunt I guess.

Maybe special forces does take a look at you for fitness' sake alone and you become a badass(lol)? Just hope something comes out of it for you.

Thanks for your concern. Beleive me, there are no loopholes without consequences for me. The only "viable" thing was to move abroad for more studies/work, but that's even more life changing than serving. As for special forces, as i said i wanna avoid them at all costs. The might call me there but you have the legal right to object and i will. Fitness does not concern me because my body has been in pretty much great shape since i was 10 years old(i was a competitive runner), and never stopped excersing since then. The only reason i might have considered special forces, as stupid as it might sound, would be the food and hygiene. The feed you with lean fresh meats all the time(compared to the regular service were they feed you canned shit), and they force you to clean up excessively the premises(and yourself lol), which is always a good thing. However the are extremely strict about everything, they make you feel like shit all the time, and nationalism(the bad kind) is also in extreme levels. Is is not worth it.

If other peoples lives may depend on you in a time of crisis your eyesight better be 20/20.

It's bad enough that there are people drafted, that aren't capable of pulling a fellow soldier from the battlefield, that aren't put in an office job.