How do hardcore players survive act 4?

RaizQT's video on getting to Cruel in 2 hours is excellent. Very hardcore though.

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Ferrocet wrote:

@Col_Jessep:

Yes, there is much to learn. It seems I've been just scratiching at the surface so far, and I am a bit surprised to have made it into act 3 merciless without much trouble. In Diablo II, many of my characters ended somewhere in act 1 hell or act 2. So POE has less stepp difficulty in merciless, but it has the maps, which D2 did not have.

I have found 3 maps so far, but just yesterday opened acess to the eternal laboratory, so today I can try my first map, juts out of curiosity.

Don't worry about making mistakes. My first build was a summoner and my gear looked a lot like yours does atm. And you made it to Act 3 merciless with a 3-link, not bad at all!

Have a look at maps but I think you will find that you will have a hard time even in the tier 1 maps. I've looked at your skill tree and your gear and your character needs more health and energy shield. Don't let that stop you though, take a look at maps. If you run out I can give you some of my maps.
You probably want to farm Docks for some time now first though. Make sure you have good fire and cold resists but your resists look much better than mine at this level. *cough*


Back to your health and energy shield. There is a nice combo cluster between Witch and Shadow on the skill tree with a notable skill called "Melding". Put your next 4 skill points into that. I would advise you to take even more life nodes and get some items with high energy shield on them but that's easier said than done. Additional good life clusters are pretty far away.

The good news is that you have already plenty of damage in your tree and if you get a 4-link or 5-link going you should have some nice dps with the right gear.

Unfortunately I have very little experience with Arc or crit builds atm and can't give much advise.
Arc + Spell Echo + Lightning Penetration + Faster Casting, as elitedesolator said, sounds like a solid choice.

How is your mana looking? I noticed you are running 2 mana flasks which suggests you have trouble sustaining your mana. I think you should probably try to run Clarity. The Clarity aura increases your mana regeneration and it might be tough to sustain your mana needs without it. You can buy Clarity from Nessa in the first town (Lioneye's Watch).

One word of caution though: You don't want to level Clarity as high as possible but just enough that you can cast your skills. If you level Clarity too high it reserves too much mana.

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Ferrocet wrote:

What bugs me is that the vendors are so picky about the character class. E.g. my shadow can't buy a summon skeletons gem. My witch can. Do I need a character of each class, and level, to buy all buyable gems? Looks strange to me - IMO at some level, vendors should sell all gems that they have in stock to all character classes.

That would make sense but GGG wants to encourage you to trade or something like that. It makes little sense. Be glad though, when I started you would only get the gems from quest rewards and vendors didn't sell any gems. That was a pain in the butt in new leagues...

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elitedesolator wrote:

RaizQT's video on getting to Cruel in 2 hours is excellent. Very hardcore though.

Thanks, that should be some help, particularly since I consider starting a new shadow. But hearing that arc scales well enough to get my current shadow some further in the game, I'm now not quite sure what to do next.

The new character is meant to be a spectral throw + cast on critical build, the shadow class has some nice +critical nodes in reach, and there are plenty of elemental and spell damage nodes to power up the spells when triggered. So far the idea to spend many hours again to get to the point when the planned skills begin to work, made me hesitate, but reaching cruel in two hours would help a lot to get through the most boring part quickly.

@Col_Jessep:

I didn't think much about the two mana flasks. Usually I don't have mana problems. Nevertheless when doing test runs with my witch last evening, I found clarity helpful, and she could buy a clarity gem for my shadow, too. I've chosen clarity mostly for the energy shield though.

I had not taken the melding cluster so far, because the nodes had such low values. I had planned to take the energy shield nodes near the witch starting point next.

@Phillybear:

Last evening I discovered that I totally had missed the option to make normal flasks magic with the one sort of orbs.

Must find out how to link items to the forum, but I have a hybrid flasks with instant recovery now, and one which recovers a quite large amoutn of life, but slow. Sometimes I feel stupid, particularly if I consider the amount of normal flasks which I had not even picked up, because I thought, theey are useless.

Good to know that superior flasks can be sold for baubles.

@Elitesoldier:

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arc is a solid choice. Auto target, solid damage with a 4 link and is ranged. I'm reasonably sure the links should be spell echo, lighting pen and faster casting.

My characters helm is now a 4 link, but I'm out of chroma orbs, so I'll have to live with a green socket and 3 blue ones - with a cold damage gem in the green socket, arc is doing 3800 DPS, lightning tendrils is currently doing 4500 dps, but it's more dangerous to use.

Thanks for all the hints and tips!

Only read the OP.

I would suggest doing some slow breathing and then repeating those fights. From what i gather your simply getting sensory overloaded by all of the stuff going on, so you can't actively deduce a counter strategy.

Which means your simply running in your dead again and again without actually formulating an effective counter-play.

Try to relax, die a few times if needed, but do so in a relax mater so you can actually gauge the fights and see where you need to improve upon.

Like viper pointed out, they are hectic fights with a lot of stuff going on, but most of it can easily be dodged and out-played.

Having better gear always helps, but really, understanding the mechanics of the fights allows you to finish them without even that.

Peace,

-Boem-

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Ferrocet wrote:

Must find out how to link items to the forum, but I have a hybrid flasks with instant recovery now, and one which recovers a quite large amoutn of life, but slow. Sometimes I feel stupid, particularly if I consider the amount of normal flasks which I had not even picked up, because I thought, theey are useless.

To link an item, just open your inventory (the character portrait in the top left of the website) and click on the item you wish to link. You'll see that some code has been added to your post.

And almost all (non-currency) items in the game can be modified by applying orbs. For flasks, it is the easiest to start with a normal flask and then do the following:
- Add qaulity until 20%
- Toss a Transmutation on it
- Use Alterations and Augmentations until you reach the desired stats.

Some more things that can keep you alive or boost your damage:
- Add a curse: Enfeeble and Temporal Chains will lower the damage you take, Elemental Weakness, Conductivity or Assassin's Mark can boost your damage output.
- A totem can also boost your damage and/or survivability. You'll always need a red socket for totems though.


Both changes can be limited to a single socket and can be removed again if you think you no longer need them.

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Boem wrote:

Only read the OP.

I would suggest doing some slow breathing and then repeating those fights. From what i gather your simply getting sensory overloaded by all of the stuff going on, so you can't actively deduce a counter strategy.

It's getting better meanwhile. I've done most boss fights several times now, and some turned from "really hard" to "quite easy". The "sensory overload" problem persists though. In many cases until I understand what is going on there, my character is dead. With more experience this should also mend, since I don't need to think but just rememeber and act.

Which leads me to one more thing.

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elitedesolator wrote:

RaizQT's video on getting to Cruel in 2 hours is excellent. Very hardcore though.

I've been watching this. My impression: This guy is doing a lot of things in parallel. He is adjusting gear, applying skill points all while running and even fighting. I don't have the mental capacity to do that.

Still I have tried to copy some of the ideas from the video. Act 1 was really easy this way. The rest I can't really remember, it was too fast. In act 4 I hit a dead end, my new character was too much under level, and the skill choice didn't suffice anymore. So I lost a lot of time there.

Instead of 2 hours it took me about 16. I did all side quests though.

I'm happy that my new character finally reached the level to start using the desired skills, and I'm also happy that the choice of skills is quite fun, at least at the moment. But I also think this is not the way I should play, and next time I start a character, I'll go slower again. What bothers me, is that I made mistakes in the passive tree, and had to use respec points - this would not have happened if I had played slower.

Now I'll see how to develop my new shadow.

i'm not a very high-tier player, but i have some experience and i would just like to share a few tips with you:

pre-tips: you can reset instances (game areas) by control-clicking on the entrance to them or on their waypoint node on the waypoint map (not the actual waypoint in the game screen) and selecting "new instance" this will reset everything in the area except for quests you personally (not party members) have already completed. took me embarrassingly long to learn that.

also, change your keyboard settings, you don't *have* to use the defaults. i personally use asd row for flasks and my skills are bound to zxcqw. it's your life live how you want to.

nextly, follow a build guide! at least until you are experienced. while it's way more fun to just go off and do whatever you want, this game (especially late game content) is VERY punishing to poor builds, and you can easily hit a wall with a poorly built character that you will not be able to break through.

lastly, the game has a fascinating and somewhat wonky crafting system. the best items in the game are not uniques but items into which you have crafted the best possible "mods" and "rolls". that's endgamey type stuff though but be aware of it, don't ignore it.

1 - you *must* always have a quicksilver flask on your belt at all times. for inexperienced players transmute it and alter (if possible) until you get plus charges and even more bonus run speed. IT IS NOT INTUITIVE WHEN YOU START OUT to automatically hit use the flask when needed, i will give you a tip to help get you into the habit: use it all the time when you don't need to. just run around with it in between fights. eventually after using it a zillion times your brain will register, "hey when i hit that button i go super fast for a little bit, i should do that RIGHT NOW before this thing whacks me!" (at least that's what happened for me).

POE is a game that is for a large part measured in seconds. most truly dangerous situations are not long drawn out mob fights or boss fights, it's being about to die to something and having only seconds to react. such encounters are rarely more than a few seconds, and with a quicksilver with +29% extra speed on top of the base, you are 70% faster for five seconds! the quicksilver is one of the easiest and best survival tools in the game.

2 - get a dash and master it. i'm not going to repeat point 1 but the bulk of it applies here as well. dash skills are INCREDIBLY important, as they can quick get you out of a deadly situation, and, aside from whirling blades, can cross most (but not all) terrain barriers, like going up cliffs or crossing broken bridges, etc.

for casters or wandslingers (<---one day, you will build this: https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1162760 the epicness will shock you.) , flame dash is basic (if you master lightning warp and support gem it properly it is godlike but it's a hard skill).

for melee tanks, leap slam, NOT FOR THE ATTACK but for the mobility.

for bow users, blink arrow. IMHO blink arrow is the best dash in the game. incredible mobility, fast cast, great range, AND you leave behind a clone to toy with your enemies. too bad you need to run an archer build to use it.

for one-handers whirling blades is GODLY fastest dash in the game, but CAN NOT skip terrain unlike others.

there is also shadow run, it's definitely more advanced, i dont use it but i understand there are those who do to great effect.

ONLY USE ONE DASH and i HIGHLY recommend binding it to your right click, once it becomes intuitive after practice etc, your mind auto knows with any char, danger!!, right click AWAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYY (then quicksilver awaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyy (if neeeeeeedeeed))

in addition to the utility you expect, there are advanced uses for them as well once you get better. for instance, boem wrote a neat tip on a thread somewhere about adding culling strike to whirling blades, i did it it's SUPER USEFUL. get a boss down to 10% hp and whirlydeath right thru em.

3 - MOST OF YOUR POINTS NEED TO GO TO HP or ES (hp more important). it took me forever to get over this and get on with my life, because you really DONT WAAAAAAAANNNNAAAA do this. you want to skill cool passives that DO stuff. but too bad get over it. even in softcore, almost 50% of your total skill points need to be HP/ES (i dont recommend you do an armor/evasion build until you are an experienced player) in hardcore it's like 70-80% depending on various factors. if you are having troubles, GET MORE LIFE/ES NODES.

4 - YOU HAVE NO COMMITMENT TO YOUR BUILD IN EARLY GAME. a lot of people struggle with this psychologically in POE when they are newbs, i know me and my friends did. in other games like d2, you are who you are, so picking a barbarian meant playing the whole game as a barbarian, with barb weps, and barb skills, and suchlike.

POE HAS NO CLASSES. the only difference is where you start on the skill tree. everyone can equip every gem. this is why that wandslinger build says to play as a ranger! for best wand results! ALMOST NO BUILD MATTERS before act 4 at the LEAST, most really don't matter until cruel, because until then ALL YOU REALLY NEED IS survival passives.

what's my point? it's simple. lets say you decide to play a summoner. because of other games you play and have played in the past where early choices determine late choices and your progression throughout the game, you immediately start gearing summoner gear, even if its all pathetic. because im a SUMMONER, you say. you DONT need to spend the whole early game running around with weak zombies and skeles while you poop off in the background.in fact most people i have played with dont summon until THE MIDDLE OF CRUEL until then they play WHATEVER THEY HAVE. wait you have a sick unique bow that does cray cray damage in your stash?

stick it on your summoner.

you have a unique axe that blows away mobs?

sure use that.

the point is the early game and late game are disjointed! the most extreme example i have seen is some SRS builds recommend not using SRS until level 40-50!!!

5 - one last thing that is NOT intuitive. the most noob friendly build archetypes in this game are RANGED BOW USERS, NOT melee tanks, NOT op spellcaster, NOT summoner, but ARROWS LAWNCHERS.

there are quite a few OP arrow skills in this game, combine with decoy or flame totem (<--this is the BEST early game noob friendly skill btw) and blink arrow for escape and distraction, and controlling mobs is easy. skills like lightning arrow linked to lesser multi projectiles clear early mobs so fast it's ludicrous.

tornado shot is so OP its a joke. it's like this games version of a shotgun, i had a 5-link, just for funsies i used nado+GMP+LMP+chain+increased crit chance (on a crit based build) it was HILARIOUS. made it to 56 before i even had to start paying attention to what i was doing, i could literally eat sandwiches in one hand while playing that build. (used frenzy for single targets)

anyways, play ranged if you want, it's very noob friendly and helps to learn to control mobs and the flow of the game, then you go try something harder (it worked for me!)

FINAL TIP - unlike d2 and many other games where party and solo play are more of a personal preference, the content in this game is BY FAR best experienced in a party. while some more experienced players prefer to solo, even they would tell you that partying, in terms of raw enjoyment and content experiencing, is better for less expert players. i know that does not work for everyone, but i'm just putting it out there so you know. it's usually easy to find strangers doing whatever you are at any given time too. don't get bogged down in friendships if you don't want to, POE is not an online dating service. just play with some strangers, log out and find a new party when you come back whenever that is. one important note if you do party play, unless you are in fact playing with a friend, DON'T try to save strangers. if a guy in your party does something dumb let him die. you owe him NOTHING. every man for himself.

enjoy and if i can offer any more help i will try!

P.S. this took me a while to formulate and write. rereading it, i like it. i think i will repost whenever i see a thread with someone saying HELP I R NEWB. i kind of wish i had this to read when i first started the game. oh well ^_^.

Thanks. I'll try to repsond to a few points. At least give my own findings to compare with.

- I'm surprised how difficult the teleport skill are to trigger in PoE. Often when I try, they do not trigger at all. I've been experimenting a bit, in the catacombs of act2, and it was really difficult to teleport through some of the gates. I have not yet mastered this to make it a reliable escape maneuver. In D2, where I'm coming from, I had teleport on the right mouse button whenever I had teleport on a character. The increased maneuverability really is a life saver. I still don't understand why the dash skills sometimes don't want to trigger, but it has to do with the line of sight, I think.

Briefly: I agree, those skills are important, but for someone coming from D2 also unexpected fiddly.

- Quicksilver flasks. My new shadow is the first one to carry a quicksilver flask. As you mentioned, most battles are blazes. As Elreon says "us or them". Either you wipe them quick, or you have a problem. I must get used to the speed and also the quicksilver flasks. Like the dashes, something that needs practise.

- Key bindings. I tight situations I tend to hit the wrong keys. "Why is my character running so fast? Ooops, that was the quckksilver flask, an not the mana flas". "Where do all teh skeletons come from? Oops, this was vaal summon skeleotons, not the ice golem". I should change the layout, but I have no good idea yet, what layout will fit me. Currently I hit the wrong keys too often, so you are right, this is something to look into.

- I've been reading it many times. Life, life, life. Still I hope to get life from gear; the passive tree life nodes often give only a few percent, but seemingly one has to go this route. My latest character purposedly did not until very recently, when things got really hairy. A bit strange, I'm used to this focus on life only from hardcore mode in D2. But well, it's a new game with new rules.

- Change skills from early to late game. I did/do this with my latest character. The levelling skills have been very different from what I plan to use finally. I've been leveling most of the time with fire trap, flame surge and spell totem. Feels odd, but PoE has this system of easy to change skills, so one better makes use of it. Just the passive tree must be planned to some extend for the final build. I'm even considering to have two setups for area runs and boss kills. Don't know yet how it will work out, but if it succeeds I'll have barrage for single-target damage, and ST for area. All I'l have to do is to switch one gem. But I don't have the right socketed items yet, need two green sockets for ST/Barrage and CoC and I'm out of chroma orbs. So I had to go with a trigger skill that goes into a red socket. Turned out to be fun, though, so I'm keeping it :P

- Ranger/Bow. Usually I try bows very late. My favorite characters are casters, then the sort of nimble fighter. Strangely the duelist was not to my taste, so currently I favor the shadow starting point. From there one can make good spell casters, and also good fighters of the non-tank sort. Might not be easiest, by my shadow-caster worked well through much of the game, and the new shadow (ST/Barrage, CoC) looks promising too.

Least liked classes at this point: templar, scion, duelist and ranger. The marauder deems me cool "Me not stupid, me smashes things very well!", so some day I'll try to make something out of it, but that must wait till interesting fighter items come (and I have leanred mroe about such sort of fighters in PoE).

- The instance reset ctrl-click is now one of the tips that are shown when entering a new area. But I haven't used it yet.

in one of my least likes things about this game, the way dash skills work is if you cast them in a non-valid way they wont to ANYTHING, which is so stupid it makes me furious.

ie, lets say you flamedash, but you accidentally clicked farther than the range of the flame dash. your character will attempt to WALK to the nearest pixel from where it can launch to your target. lets say it cant get there cuz its stuck behind a WALL OF ENEMIES?

then it will just sit there looking stupid and you will say wtf didnt i just cast flame dash?

same with any dash so knowing the range is really important.

same thing will happen if you cast it to an area the character cant get to (behind a wall, off map, etc.)

the only exception to this is whirling blades, which is why i lovelovelove it. whirling blades will just whirl you away in the general direction you clicked, until you hit unpassable terrain or a wall or something, but its so much easier to use to dive out of a fight.

btw i made some edits to my post. if i think of more i will post it separately.

side note, i now only play hardcore. i love the thrill :)

it's sooooo frustrating, but really thrilling.

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Ferrocet wrote:

- I've been reading it many times. Life, life, life. Still I hope to get life from gear; the passive tree life nodes often give only a few percent, but seemingly one has to go this route. My latest character purposedly did not until very recently, when things got really hairy. A bit strange, I'm used to this focus on life only from hardcore mode in D2. But well, it's a new game with new rules.

In PoE you really want to stack as much life as you can get and then get all the forms of damage mitigation, even in softcore.
The reason is the XP penalty you get if you die in merciless difficulty. 10% doesn't sound like much while you are still leveling but once you reach the high 80s and 90s those 10% mean you lose a significant amount of time, maps and currency (rolling good affixes on your maps).

Personally I like to have 5k life and as much armor and life regen as I can get and more is always better. Life and regen give you time to react and think and can occasionally keep you alive from those stupidly big hits. Lots of life also means it is harder to get frozen or stunned, which can become very important in some boss fights.

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Ferrocet wrote:

The instance reset ctrl-click is now one of the tips that are shown when entering a new area. But I haven't used it yet.

That's becoming more important once you reach level 60+ areas as you want to farm items for the chaos vendor recipe while you are leveling.