I Can't Do This Again

Back in open beta, maps were completely unsustainable. You had to have either an extremely lucky streak to break into 75+ maps, or enough currency to buy maps from those who did. With the new map changes, we've gone one step forward and three steps back. The new system of adding packsize from rolls is fantastic, but it doesn't mean anything when we're back to open beta levels of sustainability, if not worse.

Prior to this patch, I was slowly expanding my 77+ map pool. I rolled my maps with nothing but quality in mind, as I had builds capable of handling any and every map mod. Since 2.0.0, I've all but depleted my 78's. According to the gaping hole in my stash, I've ran about 24 78's thus far, with a handful of 77's and a couple of 76's. The bottom right of my image shows the returns of this investment. Two 79's (I ran one of them already, died to the ridiculously overtuned boss twice and decided to skip him), six 78's, and about 10 77's (ran a couple of those too, didn't get shit in return though, hence the 5 left).

If you doubt my ability to roll maps, the image includes the last five I ran. Also, I swear that packsize was made much much rarer on legacy maps, as I've only seen it a dozen times maybe with well over 100 chaos spent rolling maps.

If drop rates aren't changed, I won't be playing much longer. I'll run the rest of my 78's and 77's, run whatever those drop, and then at that point I'll probably be able to count my 77+ map pool with two hands. Whenever I inevitably get to that point, I'll just quit. It's not fun losing progress. It's not fun having to spend literally everything you have on maps just to eke out mediocre to horrible returns. I get it GGG, you're terribly offended that a very small number of people are managing to get to 100 in a few weeks through teamwork and staggering amounts of no-lifing, but please don't take it out on the rest of the population.

Im Right there with you OP!

They changed map drop rates to stop people from lvling to 100 so fast even though only a small minority of people have ever even see lvl 100 they make changes to map drops for EVERYONE to stop only a few... and the worst part.... People are STILL well in route to hit lvl 100 before the leagues are even halfway finished! So what was the point of gimping everyone elses fun to not even fix the problem the changes were made for? Thats my biggest issue ATM!

You want to make the game more difficult? Fine give it to me baby! I can deal with just about everything including making me feel liek if play standard im wasting my time! Fine.... ill give in.. ill play temp leagues even though i dont even like starting over and would rather play perm leagues but... fine ill go with the design philosophy! But when you start taking away my endgame, the one thing i get the most enjoyment out of in this game or any game like this for that matter and make it where its not even fun or you even feel like your never going to progress in maps for the reason of stopping only a few people from lvling so fast and then they STILL are able to...
Thats where im gonna have to say something needs to give! Dont take away everyone elses fun just to try to do something to the minority especially when the way your are trying to do it isnt even working!

Ive said it before... Hell ive said it several times.... map drop rates isnt the issue nor is gimping it going to stop people from lvling to 100! You need to change something else! Like the Exp gains once you reach lvl 90 or so or change how lvling and such works when grouping if you REALLY are making changes to the map system to stop people from hitting 100 so fast! Because as you can obviously see the map drop changes is NOT fixing it! its only runing the fun for everyone else!
People are still going to hit 100 in about a month on SC and about a month and a half in HC! (IF Etup doesnt fall asleep on the way there anyway!)

I completely understand that the higher map tier should be hard as hell to get... thats fine thats not my issue.. its when its almost impossible to even sustain mid tier maps and dont even see higher maps drop on multiple higher map runs! i mean if you only give me 4 or 5 lvls of maps to run im going to get very bored very quickly of that and its either reroll or just give up and go do something else that is actually fun! Free up the map drops up to about 76 or so then start making it harder to get them! And adjust the Exp from lvl 90-100 instead! The result will be that getting 100 WILL get much harder and the rest of the playerbase that doesnt even give a shit about 100 can still have fun! I mean if the true goal is to make it much harder to lvl to 100 then make the Exp from lvl 90-100 reflect that! You want it to take a year to hit 100? Fine make the Exp reflect such! Dont take away the majority of endgame content from players! Thats just crazy!

OF all the changes made in patch 2.0 the map drop change is by far the most problematic and fun restricting of them all! And for me its going to end up being the deal breaker for me because if i cant even enjoy endgame content then what exactly is the point of me even lvling up a character to build it for endgame? Why should i waste my time to put a build together and try to make it as strong as possible if i cant even really test it in the endgame mapping system? I mean im not asking for nerfs im not asking for the difficulty to be changed and im not even asking for GGG to give a shit about standard! They force me to play Temp Leagues or be punished every patch for making build there so im already doing shit i dont want to do just to be able to play the game but if i cant atleast get to enjoy my build in the endgame content im just seeing no point in continuing to make builds if i cant use them for what they are made for! Im not even asking for maps to just rain out of the sky either! i just want to be able to enjoy my build and see how far i can take it! And right now it doesnt matter how good or bad i make a build right now because it will never go past doing a 74 map just because of the drops rates alone! And when i dumping ungodly amounts of currency into maps to roll them like GGG is intending me to and still not seeing anything in return for all that effort THATS what makes me feel like im just wasting my time!

totally agree, if you run hard rare maps you should get back at least a map back of the same level, occasionally higher. it's ridiculous to run incredibly hard high level maps and get back a 66, or sometimes even nothing at all. stop gating your endgame content behind shitty rng

Totally agree. And to think that when they proposed these map changes it initially sounded like a buff to maps. This is one thing I hat about the way GGG communicates to the player base. They make fundamental changes to the game that are outright nerfs but sugar coat it with disingenuous reasoning (reduced mana in same boat) . If you are going to nerf something at least have the decency to say it upfront instead of fucking around with people's time and patience.

I fundamentally do not understand why no-lifers hitting level 100 is a problem.

If you devote your heart and soul to the game and play 16 hours a day and make a ton of currency - yeah, you're gonna level to 100 and be really powerful! What the hell is the point in trying to stop this?

Sure, those same people might be among those constantly demanding more difficulty and more time sinks (not saying the only ones who want more difficulty are no-lifers, to be fair). But that's because this game is their job and they're afraid of "running out" of stuff to do. Aw, too bad for them! They should just go outside, TBH.

Most human beings don't have the time and unhealthy obsession to play that way in any game, and GGG should not be balancing around masochistic addicts, thanks. I believe they can maintain a healthy and profitable customer base by attracting people who will play a few thousand hours over several years, rather than a tiny group who will play tens of thousands over several months (I get that a month only has 730 hours, but I'm being hyperbolic here).

My 50+ 78s map pool is gone.

The new map drops are complete bs.

And i messaged support to ask if lvl 82 maps do drop or are corrupted only and got this lame response:

"

Unfortunately we cannot speculate on how to get higher-level maps or the current drop-rate of maps as our maps have had massive sweeping changes since the Awakening update. Note that corrupting maps can increase their level, however you may need to discuss this with fellow players via our Gameplay Discussion subforum on the following link:

https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-forum/gameplay-discussion

SERIOUSLY GGG? You can't even answer that?

Changes sound good on paper: prevent easy sustainability (regaled packsize gameplay) and introduce more risk / reward (bonus for rolling more difficult mods & killing the boss). But if the implementation is just nerf the shit out of drops, then luck is still the thing that defines progression the most.

I haven't played at high levels since 2.0 hit, because I started out in Warbands. Currently reaching 74 tier (old 72 maps) seems to me about the same (in terms of effort / time) as before. It's more or less random - I dont feel rewarded for playing more difficult maps & clearing their bosses. Low-tier maps with damage mods are noticeably more difficult than they were before, so the "risk" is definitely there. Will see how mid-tier maps are sustainable in the coming days.

Content (non)accessibility was the deal breaker for me before in OB. If I put the effort, the grind, the knowledge into the game, but don't get the progression because I'm cockblocked by randomness, then I'm out. Plowing through easy stuff with a decently geared char is not a rewarding or fun gameplay and re-rolling is not the answer for high lvl players. Nor should I be forced to play in party, to get some decent XP & access. (this unoptimized game engine gives me 15 FPS in party anyway)

Well all i can say is theres a shit ton of work GGG has put into this game and especially this patch thats all about be thrown out the window over such a selfish thing as gating endgame content by such extreme RNG! Im sure im not the only one that will stop playing and move on to something else if they cant make some kind of middle ground for everyone to enjoy the game!

Theres just too many things right now i feel like im already being forced into playing the game unlike i want to as it is and then throw this kind of Endgame at me too?... If im not having fun then im not going to continue to play its really that simple! If theres no endgame for me to enjoy once i go through the new hell that is lvling through all 4 acts 3 times just to get there and not even get to experience it or enjoy it then what the point in continuing? Its really starting to piss me off that im watching months worth of farming maps up to get a decent pool of maps up and watching all those months of farming get threw away in just a weeks time! Theres just no sense in that what so ever!

Thank God i already got a taste of what mapping was going to be like in the Beta so once i burned a few and seen they didnt change ANYTHING like they said they were going to i stopped burning my maps!

I'm trying to level to 94 atm. and I can't get higher than 74 atm.
I get some 76~77 maps SOMETIMES, but thats really really rare.
So I'm stuck facerolling maps with no real fun, while needing to do TONS of them to jsut get a few %XP.
I can't see the layouts of all these maps anymore..I want XP and I want difficult content... not the 100239972340 collonade map.

Gating CONTENT behind stupid RNG shit and hindering players to prgress is the dumbest idea ever made.

Making maps tolerable in 3 easy steps

1. Change formula so two maps of same type vendor for map of +1 level (instead of three of same type). Right now if you run a map and get three maps, a -2 level and two -3s, you just got kicked in the dick by RNGesus, unless you trade them off, which can be annoying. If the formula was improved, you'd be halfway to a map of the same level.

2. The expected value of level 82 maps found in an average five-affix 82 map should be precisely 1 (counting only map drops + vendor formula). By "average five-affix" I mean roller has absolutely no caring which affixes show up, they just Alch a map and then if it has only 4 affixes they Chaos it until it didn't have only 4 affixes anymore. (Average 1 Alch + 1.5 Chaos.)

What this does is incentivize 6-affix maps in the least punishing way possible. If the typical 5-affix has expected return of 1, then sustaining maps that way is a lot like flipping a fair coin over and over and hoping the amount of heads is equal or greater than the number of tails. Long-term you'd expect equality, but you'd also expect a few dips where tails temporarily exceed heads. Players would go for the sixth affix to better assure no such droughts happen.

There. The exact best droprate for maps. Wasn't that hard to determine.

3. Balance affixes so no two affix (prefix+suffix) combo gives more reward than the average of four totally random affixes. Because Regal map crafting of the same prefix+suffix combo every time is bullshit, and at best should get an expected return of 1.