Kanai’s Cube

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Reforge a Legendary Item: Completely re-rolls a Legendary item as though it had dropped for the first time. This includes any powers that may have been previously enchanted on the item. Note that reforged items may re-roll as either Ancient or non-Ancient, so reforge at your own discretion!

Upgrade Rare Item: Upgrades the quality of a level 70 Rare item to Legendary. This item will roll as a randomized Legendary that shares that item's equipment type.

Convert Set Item: Converts a Set item to a randomized piece of gear from the same Set. For example, if you convert a pair of Asheara's Finders, you could get Asheara's Custodian, Asheara's Pace, or Asheara's Ward in return.

Remove Level Requirement: Removes the level requirement from an item, allowing it to be equipped by a character of any level.

What the hell

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

[sic]
TL;DR: The Median XL guy fixed D3 using nothing but mockery, which Blizzard wisely learned from.

I'm a Johnny-Spike, so I like my uniques to be mechanically interesting and effective.
Reasoning? If it isn't useful then nobody uses it, no matter how interesting the mechanical conceit is. If it's just a straight upgrade, then there's no reason you wouldn't take it over "vanilla" styles and rares. Some uniques only present the illusion of a trade-off, but are just better in every way.

I suppose you've given me the language to express why I hated Cloak of Defiance.

CoD is novel to the Johnny for a bit until it becomes cookie-cutter for every build. Once the full potential of the item becomes realized by the community, there's nothing new to explore. It's been done to death. Once he knows how the build works there's nothing there for him.

ZiggyD is very much a Johnny when he popularized his EK MoM/EB build since he measured success purely by whether the build could casually get through content in some novel new way.

Spike and Timmy like it because Spike has proven to Timmy that it's the "biggest" and best in a specific context (i.e. "the mana curve).

A lot of Timmies complained that Cloak of Defiance wasn't really that effective, but they tend to miss how Spike-like builders tend to think of it: It's very cost effective. It's not unequivocally "the best" but it's an extremely powerful tool for min-maxers. It becomes an established holy grail by word of mouth and rote learning.

As a Johnny-Spike, I want ES/EV to be a viable alternative to CoD, not completely overshadowed by it. And I don't think of build copy-pasters as deserving of their success, since their knowledge of the game is shallow and rote.

I'm of the opinion that uniques should enforce trade-offs, not be unequivocally cheaper and better than everything else relative to its place in the "mana curve." Spikes should only consider that trade-off if they judge it best for their competitive playstyle and strategy.

To an extent, a lot of uniques don't behave that way, since Lioneye's Remorse or Queen of the Forest are very nearly similar to their well-rolled rare counterparts. Ironically, I don't have as much problem with these because they while don't present trade-offs they're conveniently cost-effective "vanilla" items, where it would be almost prohibitively difficult to find comparatively rolled rares.

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kjksdajk wrote:

is that so, that they still pulling things from d2. Basically they are slowly transforming d2 into d3 and selling it again to you. Let me guess, druid and assasin for expansion?, maybe 2 expansions.

d2 was relatively popular for so many years... of course they take inspiration from it. d3 has a lot of content d2 didnt have however, and the games play way differently. d3 encourages the use of many different powerful skills while the d2 skill tree required mastering one or two primary skills.

@pneuma

Determinism is indeed one of the fundamental issues, very astute of you to bring it up.

Both CCGs and unique item systems are deterministic by nature. If your deck/build is based around a particular line of text, then it's simply not the same deck/build without it. It is irrelevant how low GGG makes the droprate for Shavronne's Wrappings, every Shavronne's build will inevitably need that specific item. There are no substitutes. In systems like these, as little as 5% incompleteness often transforms an otherwise viable build into utter trash.

Rare item systems, in contrast, are defined by their lack of determinism. Continuous refinement and incremental upgrades are at the heart of the system. Your gear is never complete, never perfect... and that's okay, because the system allows you to have a base of a few key affixes while the rest is optional and upgradeable.

In my previous post I hinted that rares and uniques form a dichotomy. Specifically, the chasm between them is one of determinism. Deterministic and non-deterministic gear progression systems are like oil and water, you might put them together but they'll never really mix. There is no synergy, and important competing interests. If drop rates are low enough to prevent players from having perfect rares before they finish, then they're not high enough to provide technically-BiS uniques to builds which need them to function.

I mean, even going back to Diablo 1, Arkaine's Valor was awkward as fuck in a game that otherwise randomized absolutely everything, from quests to spells. Why are we still copying this rare/unique juxtaposition? I mean, D1's uniques had their own awkward charm, but "so bad it's good" only works for so long.

MXL and D3 have both figured out by now that oil and water don't mix. It's time the ARPG community in general figured it out too.

Lastly... let it not be said I have no sense of humor. :p

Rares are an odd thing in that there are so many ways to brick your items and none of those wrong mods are remotely viable sidegrades. It just presents the illusion that there are sidegrades.

You can name these. There's thorns, regeneration, stun duration and many more I'm probably not mentioning. Either make those mods useful or remove them from the pool entirely. Buff things like stun recovery. At least a decent % regeneration suffix won't make people groan just because it isn't a resistance.

I think part of what's holding hybrid defenses back is that there just isn't really a reliable way to stack two defenses at once. If you have a GB chest, you can roll +x% evasion or +x% ES OR +x% both. And you CANNOT roll hybrid "x-y" rolls of ES/EV. Narrow that down so that only hybrid prefixes roll.

It also seems that GGG wants us to actually use mana. Except why the hell would you want a mana roll on every gear slot? No way. I'm not stacking % mana or getting mana on every slot. Forget it! Maybe if I could get it as a suffix on shields and chests, then it'd be tolerable. Trading a resistance affix for mana is less crazy than trading a % armor roll or a life roll.

Hell, just add "Elreon's" to the mod pool. It's far more prized than actual mana regen or mana affixes. It clearly works. This other stuff doesn't.

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DeviantLightning wrote:

Hell, just add "Elreon's" to the mod pool. It's far more prized than actual mana regen or mana affixes. It clearly works. This other stuff doesn't.

I feel this is more of an issue than the "thorns is shit" problem. Not to say "thorns is shit" isn't a problem, it is, but... priorities.

Just go to the Brother Laz unique review. Pretty sure he calls D3s uniques at the time "glorified rares." What he really means is: zzzz boring snoozefest. ARPG developers have never had the cojones to give rare items mods which are actually cool; under the hybrid design paradigm, that's reserved for uniques. So rare affixes are always bland and boring and at best a Timmy-Spike endless stacking of core stats.

For rares to actually work, that paradigm needs to change. If rares always do boring things and uniques always get the cool toys, uniques will always be "required" to balance out psychographics.

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

"

DeviantLightning wrote:

Hell, just add "Elreon's" to the mod pool. It's far more prized than actual mana regen or mana affixes. It clearly works. This other stuff doesn't.

I feel this is more of an issue than the "thorns is shit" problem. Not to say "thorns is shit" isn't a problem, it is, but... priorities.

Just go to the Brother Laz unique review. Pretty sure he calls D3s uniques at the time "glorified rares." What he really means is: zzzz boring snoozefest. ARPG developers have never had the cojones to give rare items mods which are actually cool; under the hybrid design paradigm, that's reserved for uniques. So rare affixes are always bland and boring and at best a Timmy-Spike endless stacking of core stats.

For rares to actually work, that paradigm needs to change. If rares always do boring things and uniques always get the cool toys, uniques will always win.

After walking away to close my eyes, I've been beginning to think that Uniques should read very much like keystones in their simplicity and clarity.

Don't put silly stats like lightning thorns on items like Shavronne's. Make no confusion for either the player or dev what uniques are supposed to be.

Rares stats should always be useful, even if sometimes they roll low amounts or undesirable combos. Avoid bland stat boosts like you get on Rat's Nest. That's not what uniques should be.

So Eye of Chayula should simply be:

+(10 to 20) to all Attributes
------------------------------
20% reduced maximum Life
Cannot be Stunned

Want IIR? Roll a rare. That's what they should be for.

Shavronne's Wrappings should be:

(3 to 10)% increased Spell Damage
----------------------------------
(140 to 200)% increased Energy Shield
Chaos Damage does not bypass Energy Shield

Want lightning resist or faster recharge? Too bad. Get a rare you hippy.

I don't expect uniques to be retroactively nerfed, but it'd be nice if uniques did hew closely to this aesthetic going forward. Just grandfather the others in the way they are.

Or... you could just make "Chaos Damage does not bypass Energy Shield" a rare affix.

But no, not a rare affix which can spawn on Vaal Regalia. That would be OP as shit. Maybe instead let's pick, hmm, Mage's Vestment. The level 28 chest with 61 base ES. Only that one specific base can spawn the "chaos doesn't bypass" affix.

Then, to make the other bases not feel left out, we could give each of them their own affix which spawns nowhere else. Something spicy enough to give each base a special - or dare I say it, unique - niche.

Or, you know, we could do things your way, and force players to sacrifice the world if they want to have fun.

Are you being sarcastic? I'm not sure.

"Chaos Damage does not bypass Energy Shield" is not a linear stat boost though. It's a build-enabling item for low-life builds, which are relatively glassy. It's not useful to life+ES or CI builds in the least as a raw statistical boost. I think Shav's is one of the least egregious offenders as far as uniques go, at least since RF stopped being a viable combination with it. I think it's deserves to be a unique stat, not a rare one.

Rat's Nest is pretty awful. All the stats are just rare item stats. People wear 3-4 damage uniques because they are just linear increases in damage, which should rightfully be the domain of rares. Drillneck, Rat's Nest and Maligaro's Virtuosity being the classic example of this.

Drillneck isn't really build-enabling. Do you really need an incentive to stack pierce? That's really its own reward. Why is there an item that lets me get pierce at no opportunity cost?

Just look at that thing:

10% chance of Arrows Piercing
------------------------------
(8 to 12)% increased Attack Speed
+350 to Evasion Rating
+(40 to 50) to maximum Life
Adds (10–19 to 14–24) Physical Damage to attacks with Bows
Projectile Damage increased by Arrow Pierce Chance

What have I given up here?

That's why I had such a problem with Cloak of Defiance.
At first glance, it looks novel enough, but there were zero downsides to it and no incentive to use EV/ES if you rolled Shadow.

The same goes for Lightning Coil. It's apparent that lightning resist doesn't work like armor, so it's obviously just better than armor.

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DeviantLightning wrote:

Are you being sarcastic? I'm not sure.

"Chaos Damage does not bypass Energy Shield" is not a linear stat boost though. It's a build-enabling item for low-life builds, which are relatively glassy. It's not useful to life+ES or CI builds in the least as a raw statistical boost. I think Shav's is one of the least egregious offenders as far as uniques go, at least since RF stopped being a viable combination with it. I think it's deserves to be a unique stat, not a rare one.

Rat's Nest is pretty awful. All the stats are just rare item stats. People wear 3-4 damage uniques because they are just linear increases in damage, which should rightfully be the domain of rares. Drillneck, Rat's Nest and Maligaro's Virtuosity being the classic example of this.

Drillneck isn't really build-enabling. Do you really need an incentive to stack pierce? That's really its own reward. Why is there an item that lets me get pierce at no opportunity cost?

Just look at that thing:

10% chance of Arrows Piercing
------------------------------
(8 to 12)% increased Attack Speed
+350 to Evasion Rating
+(40 to 50) to maximum Life
Adds (10–19 to 14–24) Physical Damage to attacks with Bows
Projectile Damage increased by Arrow Pierce Chance

What have I given up here?

That's why I had such a problem with Cloak of Defiance.
At first glance, it looks novel enough, but there were zero downsides to it and no incentive to use EV/ES if you rolled Shadow.

The same goes for Lightning Coil. It's apparent that lightning resist doesn't work like armor, so it's obviously just better than armor.

The point Scrotie is making is that ARPG developers have always had issues with Rares/Uniques in that Rares are simply just garbage tier / bland when you compare them to uniques. They have boring stats, and most of the time they just are straight numerical upgrades rather than doing something fancy and crazy.

If someone had the bravery and the insanity to actually apply typically 'unique' modifiers to rare items though, and then find a way to balance that, you'd find that you would increase diversity by a tremendous amount. That shit would be pretty hard to pull off though.