A GOOD, EFFECTIVE and SIMPLE way to make melee FINALY viable!

Simple: Give us nodes that only activate against enemies in melee range. For example:


Defensive nodes:
- Gain +20% elemental resistance against attacks/spells from enemies in melee range (melee weapon must be equipped)
- Gain +3% max resistances (all elements) against attacks/spells from enemies in melee range (melee weapon must be equipped)
- Gain 5% physical damage reduction against attacks from enemies in melee range (melee weapon must be equipped)

Attack nodes:
- Enemies in melee range receive 25% more damage (melee weapon must be equipped)
- You leech 3% life/mana from enemies in melee range (melee weapon must be equipped)


Those nodes provide STRONG bonuses, but only against enemies in melee combat. So if you use something like lightning strike, it will increase the damage against enemies you hit in your melee range, but the lightning projectiles will not receive the damage buff when they hit outside of your melee range. The defensive nodes on the other side willhelp you greatly to not get shotgunned against enemies in melee range, but it won't help you against enemies outside of your melee range.

"FINALY viable!"

Really? Have you played a melee build at all?
Besides, "melee range" bonuses are something any build could get.

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aStrayGami wrote:

"FINALY viable!"

Really? Have you played a melee build at all?
Besides, "melee range" bonuses are something any build could get.

Yea, I had some melee builds. About "any build could get": Then change the nodes that they only works when having a melee weapon equipped.

Having certain hard-lined ranges at which effects activate or deactivate without visual indication would kinda suck.


Besides that, defenses that only activate against enemies in melee range would also suck; it's not like melee's defensive vulnerability is derived solely from the enemies they're right next to; certainly that's an issue sometimes (against bosses in particular), but oftentimes the threat are the enemies that beat you up from a distance while you're up close and personal with other enemies.



It'd be much better just to add extra properties specifically to 'melee damage'/'melee attack speed'/etc nodes (but not necessarily melee weapon nodes... melee weapons can be used for projectile attacks too, and those types don't deserve any extra defense). The extra properties should not be strong enough to make the nodes worth taking for extras alone, but good enough that, when amassed alongside the various melee damage sources, they add up.


That, and having melee attacks implicitly (with no need for passive commitment or unique gear or anything) have stronger returns from certain mechanics would work, such as making base stunning thresholds easier with melee attacks ('melee attacks have 20% less enemy stun threshold') or having melee attacks get better returns from leech ('melee attacks have 50% more life/mana leech', which considering the significantly higher risk of being a melee is absolutely justified).

Defense is a strictly secondary concern, irrelevant to melee vs ranged balance with the sole exception of how survivability contributes to the only thing which actually matters: killspeed.

That said, more defense means more facetank means less time wasted dodging means better killspeed.

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

Defense is a strictly secondary concern, irrelevant to melee vs ranged balance with the sole exception of how survivability contributes to the only thing which actually matters: killspeed.

That said, more defense means more facetank means less time wasted dodging means better killspeed.

...uh... what? Yeah, defense is totally irrelevant when being melee means getting into range of literally every single attack in the game while being ranged means being able to fight enemies that can't fight back. Makes sense.

Don't bold me out of context. The exception is important. If you made melee literally immortal, but ranged kills things significantly faster, ranged is still a significantly better build than melee. In order for defense to matter, it has to be leveraged into killspeed.

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Shppy wrote:

Having certain hard-lined ranges at which effects activate or deactivate without visual indication would kinda suck.

Furthermore: We already have an AoE that has no visual indication = auras. If you want to have an aura from another player, you need to stick close to him

But your problem is easily solved: Give enemies some kind of debuff above their head if they are in your melee range (similiar like a curse) or let them slightly glow a little bit red (or whatever color) to indicate melee range (only seen by the player who actually has melee-range nodes)

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Shppy wrote:

Besides that, defenses that only activate against enemies in melee range would also suck; it's not like melee's defensive vulnerability is derived solely from the enemies they're right next to; certainly that's an issue sometimes (against bosses in particular), but oftentimes the threat are the enemies that beat you up from a distance while you're up close and personal with other enemies.

1. The biggest thread to melee is getting one-shotted in melee range. This happens especially if you get shotgunned by spells that can hit multiple times in close combat, but no at range (thanks to spread). Melees suffer alot from shotgunning, while ranged characters do not face this problem often.

2. With the nodes I have suggested, there is finaly a reason to get REALLY close to enemies, especially those who are a threat at distance. Just use a gap closer and get into melee range for increased damage/defense.

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Shppy wrote:

It'd be much better just to add extra properties specifically to 'melee damage'/'melee attack speed'/etc nodes (but not necessarily melee weapon nodes... melee weapons can be used for projectile attacks too, and those types don't deserve any extra defense). The extra properties should not be strong enough to make the nodes worth taking for extras alone, but good enough that, when amassed alongside the various melee damage sources, they add up.

I dont mind. That's quite similiar to my suggestion. The only difference is, that you would add the buffs I have mentioned above into other already existing melee nodes.

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

Don't bold me out of context. The exception is important. If you made melee literally immortal, but ranged kills things significantly faster, ranged is still a significantly better build than melee. In order for defense to matter, it has to be leveraged into killspeed.

That's why I also suggested attack nodes. Those above are only examples. There could be many more buffs that increase clear speed.

Nix regarding the weapon requirement, I like my little facebreaker boxer!

@Ace: The offense element of skill design is really the key factor here.

For example, consider Flameblast. It has a built-in mechanic for leveraging defense (standing still channeling) into offense. If the AoE was centered on the character using it, and based on weapon damage, it would be an almost perfectly designed melee skill. But it's a spell, mostly because of GGG bias.

This is also why Ice Crash feels so satisfying. If a melee skill doesn't cleave/splash, it's pretty much autoshit.

The right way to balance ranged vs melee is pretty simple: you get ranged, or you get AoE. Not both, unless you also go damage-over-time (added challenge of keeping enemies in area). If an ARPG would just stick to that, killspeeds would be balanced, and tankiness in melee would still be useful (to position better centered-on-self AoEs).