Armor and Energy Shield And Evasion Ratios

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Snorkle_uk wrote:

evasion when given as a % on your character sheet is a hard thing to exactly quantify. Each mob has its own accuracy, the % shown is an estimate based on the average accuracy of a white mob at your level as a character, so at lvl60, given your evasion number (lets make up some fictional numbers just to ease the example), say you have 5k evasion, it will show what it thinks is an average level 60 white mobs chance to hit you through 5k evasion, lets say thats 45% just for the sake of it.

That's highly debatable. Before the evasion rework 'fast' enemy types had higher accuracy and evasion rates. Afterwards we were told that only evasion differs and that all enemies of same level have the same accuracy rating unless they have 'accurate' mod. I suspect act and map bosses as well as rogue exiles might be an exception and naturally have higher accuracy but I never got around to testing it properly.

fair play i didnt know they flattened accuracy on them. Yeah you get the accurate mod for very accurate mobs that you can see under their name, theres increased accuracy and crit chance aura as well. I would think that unique mobs have their own accuracy, ultimately theyre +2 mobs right? So a rare monster or an exile/boss in a lvl72 zone is a lvl74 mob, and a magic mob is a lvl73 mob so already theyre going to be more accurate than the trash mobs in the same map Im guessing.

It might be hard to test if they dont have wildly different accuracy cause youd need to reach a break point I think, like a 52% chance to hit vs a 56% chance, how would that actually work out? hit, miss, hit, miss, hit, miss, hit, miss, hit, hit, miss, hit, miss etc? Is that the way it plays out? Seems like it could go into very long sequences before it repeats in an observable fashion if thats the case. Or is it just going to round and make no difference until its hit, hit, miss, hit, hit, miss consistently at 66.6% or whatever? I dunno.

good to know that accuracy is flat for level tho, I was under the impression evasive type mobs just naturally had nigher accuracy, tho I guess you do see accurate mod written on those type of mobs now and Im guessing thats a consistent sized buff. That makes it somewhat easier to tune your evasion intelligently. If the new top tier map without corruption is 81 Im gonna have to level a char to 81 and see what totals are needed to reach 50% etc, and again at 82 and 83 I guess to account for magics and rares.

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Snorkle_uk wrote:

I would think that unique mobs have their own accuracy, ultimately theyre +2 mobs right?

Actually, no, magic rare and unique aren't higher level mobs, they just drop higher level items, at least that's what the devs said. I agree that it would be annoying to test, if they had 51% chance to hit you would need to wait for 100 attacks for them to get two in a row.

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raics wrote:

For armor it's a lot more complicated, 10k is just a nice, tidy number that can be achieved with reasonable effort and is proven to make a significant difference overall. You can go beyond that but it's usually not required, when it doesn't work 20k wouldn't save you either.

Why do people keep making claims like this without actually putting these numbers into spreadsheets?
The game isn't just limited to boss attacks either.

20k and 10k are a huge ass world of difference.

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DeviantLightning wrote:

20k and 10k are a huge ass world of difference.

Of course the difference is significant, when I say it isn't worth it that doesn't mean it isn't effective, it meant the effort wouldn't be reasonable anymore for a hybrid.

And, of course, the difference between 10k and 20k armor is higher on smaller hits than on larger ones, that isn't anything new, it scales that way.

theres a difference for sure, eso when u look at armour alone, but if you factor in endurance charges it does somewhat normalise the damage you take as hits get larger. If my math is right and we look at physical hits vs armour values presuming 6 endurance charges up


1000 damage dealt

10k armour = 306 damage taken
20k armour = 135 damage taken


2000 damage delt

10k armour = 932 damage taken
20k armour = 612 damage taken


4000 damage delt

10k armour = 2352 damage taken
20k armour = 1846 damage taken


6000 damage delt

10k armour = 3834 damage taken
20k armour = 3258 damage taken


so against a 1k phys damage hit 20k armour is taking under half the damage of 10k armour, but when you get to a really huge 6k physical damage hit the difference you are getting there for doubling your armour... its a difference but its far less significant, its like 1.5 seconds of life regen for a beefy armour character.

In a way I think that highlights why hybrid defenses are so good too, when you look at a 6k hit against 10k and 20k armour with endurance charges... is it worth going from 10k armour to 20k armour when you could go from 10k armour to 10k armour + 10k evasion and evade 45% of attacks on top of that mitigation? Or from 10k armour to 10k armour + 5k energy shield and almost double your lifepool that can absorb the damage?



20k armour, you can do it with a reasonable hybrid spec but youd need pretty extreme gear, more extreme than I use. My hybrid marauder has 16,600 armour, next level he will have 17,450. With a 2k armour chest, 2k shield, 1k hat and 400 belt he would have over 20k armour with 1 more passive point. That leaves gloves and boots free to be evasion, he has 8,400 evasion currently with just evasion gloves and grace aura, you could get 9-10k evasion with well rolled slink boots added in.


tree


the next level would be precise interception block + shield defense node.

Im using a 900 armour hat and armour boots atm but I really want to get a gg Nightmare Bascinet and Slink boots to balance back towards evasion a bit more, 17,450 armour is getting a bit excessive, the extra ev would be doing more work I feel. So 20k armour, possible with extreme gear, but not worth it when you could push your evasion further instead.

Without end charges, 10k and 20k is still the difference between a death and scraping by the skin of your teeth, depending on your life pool.

Iron skin granite the 20k and you get a different story. I have a toon that granite flasks up to 48k from 25k, which is a 40% DR under 6000 damage.

So yes, it's still a world of difference even when you're talking about contrived one-hit ko scenarios.
More realistically, it's frogs or Devourers jumping on you.

Obviously no, doesn't matter for hybrids. For the one-hit ko's, ES is the best choice. Probably paired with Vaal Discipline. The combination of life and ES can bump the build's total hp pool up to a point where that doesn't happen.

no, current armour formula, you do the math then on 20k + 6 endu charges vs 6k damage and tell me what the figure is? I could be wrong.


iron skin granite is hard to factor into that because its both flat and increased armour, so youd have to know how you got to 10k and 20k armour to start with, what the existing flat and increased % was that makes up that total etc.

If I pop a granite on my 10k armour Ranger I get 25k armour, if I load my marauder up to 20k base armour and use same flask I get 37k armour, when I stick that back in to "Armour / (Armour + (12 x Damage))" with 6 endurance charges it goes from



6000 damage

10k armour = 3834 damage taken
20k armour = 3258 damage taken

576 damage taken difference


to

6000 damage

25k armour = 3018 damage taken
37k armour = 2526 damage taken

492 damage taken difference


I still feel like taking 2526 damage twice in a row is worse than taking 3018 damage once then evading the next attack...


is my math wrong on this? Anyone else care to calculate those armour values + 6 endu charges against 6k damage and show the working?

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Snorkle_uk wrote:

Anyone else care to calculate those armour values + 6 endu charges against 6k damage and show the working?

Looks perfectly fine with armor formula on live version.

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raics wrote:

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Snorkle_uk wrote:

I would think that unique mobs have their own accuracy, ultimately theyre +2 mobs right?

Actually, no, magic rare and unique aren't higher level mobs, they just drop higher level items, at least that's what the devs said. I agree that it would be annoying to test, if they had 51% chance to hit you would need to wait for 100 attacks for them to get two in a row.

It is actually super easy to test, get a character that is around the zone level and have him kill a blue, get another character of a higher level (such that he does not get 100% exp) and see how much exp he gets and calculate.