Endurance Charge On Melee Stun

Hello,
currently testing some of the lesser used skills
and here is the setup I tested:



The idea is to jump into a pack and get a couple of charges but it is not
working as I expected it to.

Independent on how many enemies I stun with 1 stun, I only get
one single charge.

Running 8 charges means 8 leapslams or in alot of situations 1 enduring cry.
Even warlords mark (without all the other benefits) is better as a single gem for stacking charges
compared to the tested gem - there is a reason why barely noone is using it, it is very bad
in it´s current state.

Suggestion: 1 charge for each enemy stunned. This might give some perma stunning builds free full charges all the time but for the cost of a dmg boosting gem. On the other hand, it makes combinations with secondary skills viable.

tyvm

This would break Discharge. And by break, I mean make superawesomerOPcoolness. Practically every related effect only gives 1 per skill. Frenzy only gives 1 charge per attack, regardless of the number of enemies hit, for instance.

If you want more charges, try something like Heavy Strike+AoE instead of (or in conjunction with) Leap Slam.

But why would I use the skill if an enduring cry with the same setup gives me more charges already? Iisn´t it much better casting warlords or ec once every 10 seconds instead of wasting a gemslot for endurance charge on melee stun? Frenzy gives you 1 charge per attack, this gives you 1 charge per stun - it doesn´t say it is linked to attackspeed in any way, it should give one charge per stun as stated.

1) EC isn't viable if you're consuming charges. Even if you're not, it's difficult at best to keep it up permanently. Also, many builds don't want to draw the aggro of every monster around every couple of seconds.

2) Warlords is almost certainly the superior option except that it requires killing things to get the charges, so against for example, bosses which don't spawn fodder, it's useless (for generating charges). And also, in party play you can't count on your curse staying active.

3) ECoMS doesn't say that it gives you one charge per stun. It says "Gain an Endurance Charge if you Stun an Enemy with Melee Damage". Since splashed melee damage is dealt simultaneously, and it says if and not when you stun an enemy with melee damage, it in fact works as stated.

4) Power Charge on Critical also only grants 1 charge per cast (despite not being properly worded to reflect that). I fail to see why ECoMS should be changed to work differently than the other 2 skills that directly grant charges, when they all work the same now (BR doesn't directly grant them).

If EC or WM floats your boat with your build, then by all means use them. You can also use CoC+EC, Volls Dev+Volls Prot, or Daresso's to actively generate endurance charges. ECoMS wasn't intended to be "free unlimited Endurance Charges for all stun builds". You can certainly generate large numbers of charges with most skills (assuming that you can get a high % of stuns), but Leap Slam is simply not terribly good at it as you have a low effective attack speed (unless there are a bunch of packs of monsters around).

Endurance Charges are intended to be very difficult to maintain (particularly in boss fights) because they are so darn strong, and you can get so many of them. Don't quote me that it's the maximum, but you can get at least 10 of them at a time, and that's 40% physical damage reduction (allowing 100% reduction if your armor's high enough) plus 40% eres -- not to mention that maxed and corrupted Immortal Calls give 1 second of physical damage immunity per charge. Even with only minor investment, you can easily get 5 maximum endurance charges and 100% increased duration, giving you 10 seconds of physical immunity. Not to mention discharge (again).

So the skill has to stay the way it is because there is one single other skill (which sadly almost everyone currentley uses) could generate charges too easily? I am playing with 7 charges myself, I am also playing a perma ic manually casting build (13seconds - in the current closed beta it is much less though, ic duration got reduced already). I am not sure why you mention discharge so often, discharge cannot stun nor is it a melee hit. Internal cooldown of 1 second should keep the cyclone/coc/discharge builds untouched.

Discharge is a very common skill, and easily abused via faster charge generation. Granted, Volls Devotion is a more efficient generator even than the proposed change, but it's also legacy, incredibly expensive, and no longer drops (outside of Zana-modded maps). I mention it because it would USE the increased number of endurance charges generated, not because it would generate them (though Discharge, like all damage that Hits, can in fact stun).

Immortal Call is also a common skill, and also easily abused. the fact that you appear to be using it in your build is simply an example of how it would be abused. IC isn't intended to be kept up 100% of the time. Doing so trivializes a large amount of the game's content, as would 100% uptime elemental resists (and as does CI for Chaos Damage). You're essentially saying "I'm immune to half of the damage in the game" and can fairly easily become immune (or practically immune) to a specified element for short bursts for example with boss fights.

Now, I'm not saying that it is (or should be) impossible to keep IC up 100% of the time. Just that your proposed change makes it far too easy.

You are overrating the perma ic builds abit. If you run 7 ec charges in an armour heavy build you are already at 90% phys reduction and in most situations you don´t need ic at all. If you take a look at the build im using in my signature you see that physical dmg is not a problem at all. The high elemental bursts are the problem which I counter with vaal immortal call. Not to mention that this kind of build requires a decent amount of investment in gemquality and skill points.

Something that is indeed way too strong is the current ic/ec/cwdt combo. No investment for pretty much permanant ic - this is already getting nerfed for the expansion.

Some situations for melee builds require you to have permanent ic up:
Armour does not reduce phys dmg over time at all for example. Multiproj academy boss already deals a crazy amount of dmg with the "shotgunning" tornados (8k dps against my "90%" phys reduction). The hardest encounter is the vaal temple double boss. A very small room, impossible to kite and a phys dmg over time that empties my lifepool of 10k hp in less than half a second. Now with perma ic this boss is actually doable even as a 2h melee player.

Those are the only 2 situations where I switch my vaal immortal call for std immortal call.

Uptime of ic will get reduced but with the nerf to shutgunning spells I might not need to run the vaal immortal call anymore. It´s only current use is to facetank mult proj dominus or crazy modded beyond bosses like in the vid.

I don´t think that the changes would make it easier to keep the perma ic up, 1 enduring call in those fights instantley fills my 7 charges. I am not trying to make the gem work for my build, a few changes could make it be a part of multiple other builds rather than being the gem noone uses.

Thx for your input.

Well, we certainly both agree that something should be done, as it indeed is one of those gems that sees little if any use.