staff vs. mace - where is the catch?

Looking at http://pathofexile.gamepedia.com/Mace and http://pathofexile.gamepedia.com/Staff it seems that staff dps is at least as good, if not better, than maces (1h and 2h), while also giving at least 12% block chance (2h staves).

So I would conclude, that staves are better overall, if one is not looking specifically for stun. But I guess, they have to have some bigger disadvantages. Is there anything I am overlooking?

It's generally harder to randomly loot a good melee staff because they can also get caster mods.

Also the int requirement could be a problem for some builds.

You're overlooking two relevant things (IMO), but you are still more or less in the right.

Firstly, nodes. Staff nodes are significantly focused on crit, and that makes staves kinda awkward if you're going RT (although between that and their high base crit chance, it does mean that basically all crit 2H melee builds use staves). For non-crit damage, mace nodes are better.

Secondly, axes. The above all being said, most RT 2H builds use axes, because they do more damage and have even better nodes if you don't give a rat's ass about stun duration. They're also largely Cyclone builds that want the increased range of an axe compared to other weapons, and then the further increased range of Atziri's Disfavour.

So that leaves maces useful not just for stuns, but also for RT builds using skills that an axe can't - Ground Slam or Glacial Hammer. If I were making RT Ground Slam, I would use a mace over a staff any day. Probably just Marohi, honestly.

Edit: above poster also makes good points.

Thanks for the information so far! :)

It would be nice if the game explained this rather than having new players just guess what kind of weapon they think might be cool

staff- crit
2h mace- for stun builds

maces are pretty niche nowadays, unless you go stun with ground slam not sure how good they are.

1h mace vs staff is apples vs oranges, since there are quite a few builds that can use a 1h mace/scepter

"

BearCares wrote:

It would be nice if the game explained this rather than having new players just guess what kind of weapon they think might be cool

explain what- that base crit on staff is higher than on a mace, and that mace has stun duration as implicit vs block chance?

"

grepman wrote:

"

BearCares wrote:

It would be nice if the game explained this rather than having new players just guess what kind of weapon they think might be cool

explain what- that base crit on staff is higher than on a mace, and that mace has stun duration as implicit vs block chance?

Exactly. To most newbies what you just stated doesn't mean anything. Implicit what? Stun chance, huh? A guy in chat the other day was asking me whether frozen counted as being stunned. He has a point. Being frozen could be seen as a form of stun, couldn't it? Maybe in another game.

Let's not even get into ignite vs burn vs poison vs chaos over time vs dodge vs evade. It's a jungle out thar. And this game should take a lesson from Mario RPG. They have a great way to revealing game mechanics without stopping gameplay TOO MUCH. I don't mean do it exactly like Mario does. But somewhere in act 1 normal there should be some way to direct player's attention to the things that are going to matter to their build a LOT more at level 60 than at level 6.

In fact this game has sort of inverse reinforcement for taking notice of passives and skill levels. If you start as a melee character and you level your gems you'll notice +2 dps, + 5 dps at early levels and you'll just kind of shrug at those numbers. This kind of implies that gem levels don't give you much damage.

But oh, how the opposite is true for spells and poison damage particularly late game. It's almost as if the game is leading you astray in some cases. If anything the first few gem levels should show exaggerated differences in power so that players will learn, "Gem levels are important" from the very start.

That's my opinion.

"

BearCares wrote:

"

grepman wrote:

"

BearCares wrote:

It would be nice if the game explained this rather than having new players just guess what kind of weapon they think might be cool

explain what- that base crit on staff is higher than on a mace, and that mace has stun duration as implicit vs block chance?

Exactly. To most newbies what you just stated doesn't mean anything.

NOTHING means anything to total newbies. thats the thing. if you want a full documentation of game's complex mechanic, there's wiki. its not going to happen in-game. even arpg with FAR simpler mechanics have hidden mechanics that are never explained in-game.

"

Implicit what? Stun chance, huh? A guy in chat the other day was asking me whether frozen counted as being stunned. He has a point. Being frozen could be seen as a form of stun, couldn't it? Maybe in another game.

no, not stun chance. I dont even understand this stuff youre typing. game doesnt have to be super noob friendly. in pretty much any arpg out there freeze and stun is different. it takes less than a second to search 'stun' or 'freeze' on poe wiki

"

Let's not even get into ignite vs burn vs poison vs chaos over time vs dodge vs evade. It's a jungle out thar. And this game should take a lesson from Mario RPG. They have a great way to revealing game mechanics without stopping gameplay TOO MUCH. I don't mean do it exactly like Mario does. But somewhere in act 1 normal there should be some way to direct player's attention to the things that are going to matter to their build a LOT more at level 60 than at level 6.

um no it should not. fuck an in-game tutorial. you're an exile. figure out shit on your own. its not rocket science. your first build is going to get fucked regardless, if you're just learning. this is true in most ARPGs that arent simplified to single cell.

"

In fact this game has sort of inverse reinforcement for taking notice of passives and skill levels. If you start as a melee character and you level your gems you'll notice +2 dps, + 5 dps at early levels and you'll just kind of shrug at those numbers. This kind of implies that gem levels don't give you much damage.

no it does not. it means you didnt bother to see that dps on the GEM is increased in %. and that the flat increase on spells isnt linear.

"

That's my opinion.

and heres mine. fuck the noob-friendly bullshit. ive played many games in the 90s with complex mechanic, no manual and no internet connection to ask or consult wiki. and somehow I figured them out. so did countless others.

in this day and age PoE has one of the best wikis for a game Ive seen, with detailed explanation of almost pretty much any mechanics, items, mods, affixes, etc. etc.

explaining it in game takes devs time, resources that are valuable. if player doesnt want to consult wiki to learn mechanics and has ADD because the game isnt noob-friendly, this game is not for him.

So, summing up...

HARDCOAH RAH RAH DAY TOOK OUR JOBS AND WE GOTS EXILED! (took err jawbs...)

Game doesn't have to be super noob friendly, it's true. It also doesn't have to make new players fumble through trying to work out the difference between 'evade' and 'dodge' - which are functionally the same term to most thinking people (i.e. synonyms) - and the difference between 'increased' and 'more', which, well, ibid.

Send your beer my way and I will water it down happily.