Minion damage vs Melee physical dam gem
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I know that MPD is a more multiplier and that it will give you a higher total damage. Buw what if you also consider auras? Let say if you have for example Anger + Hatred. This is with Zombies / Raging Spirits. is there a case when Minion damage gem is better (not counting non-melee Spectres of course)
Assuming you have all / most minion damage nodes. |
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" Melee Physical Damage is a more multiplier, and drastically increases melee physical damage. But this has no effect on elemental or chaos damage unless that damage is based on how much physical is dealt. So cold damage from Hatred will be increased by MPD, but only because the physical base that it is based on is increased. Minion Damage is an increased modifier, not giving much. The advantage is that it can effectively double dip. It increases the physical damage minions deal, which increases the cold damage from hatred. The cold damage is then increased further, if I recall correctly. This also increases the damage minions deal from Minion Instability. In general, MPD is a far superior choice over MD for zombies, skeletons, raging spirits, and animated weapons. MD is best for spectres, as you are likely using ranged casters. What nodes you have is irrelevant. |
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minion damage will boost the auras.
btw, you have 105% increased minion damage on tree. 20/20 minion damage is 92%, so it almost double your damage. Considering these two supports alone, minion damage has about twice the effectiveness of MPD. But this decrease as you add other increased damage sources (multistrike, etc.). ex: zombies, multistrike 20/20, melee splash 20/20, minion damage 20/20 increased damage: (105 + 67 + 57 + 92) / 100 = 3.21 more damage: 0.64 * 0.84 = 0.5376 final damage: base damage * 3.21 * 0.5376 = base damage * 1.73 zombies, multistrike 20/20, melee splash 20/20, melee physical 20/20 increased damage: (105 + 67 + 57 + 10) / 100 = 2.39 more damage: 0.64 * 0.84 * 1.49 = 0.801 final damage: base damage * 2.39 * 0.801 = base damage * 1.91 So MPD is better. But, as said first, minion damage will boost the auras, so in the end it's quite possible that minion damage can outperform MPD, especially if you don't have much aura nodes. If you want to be sure, you'll have to do all damage calculation by yourself (see wiki). edit: fixed & clarify maths Ranger builds list: /917964 When two witches watch two watches, which witch watches which watch? If the witches watching watches watch the same watch while you watch which witch watches which watch, they switch watches; then, the watch switching witches watch which watch you watch. Watching witches watch watches is not for the faint of heart... Last edited by Panini_aux_olives#1967 on Jan 10, 2015, 1:57:56 PM
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" Because Minion Damage is additive, it is very important what kind of modifiers you already have. Without other Increased Damage bonuses, Minion Damage is a stronger multiplier than Melee Phys. After all, 177% Damage is more than 149%. Multi plus Splash alone grant enough Increased Damage to make MPD the stronger option, and Minion Damage nodes only further push it in favour of MPD, but it's important nontheless. |
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there are two things to consider:
1) what damage minion deals? if your main sources of damage are added damage auras (anger, wrath) and gems (like added chaos), then minion damage is a clear winner. this is typical for Animate weapon and some spectre builds if you rely on minions that deal phys damage or damage based on/converted from phys (zombie, raging spirit) and use hatred aura, then proceed to point no.2 2)how much increased minion damage do you already have? in general, the more you have the higher chance for melee phys being better in case you have 0% increased minion damage, minion support will be always better because it would basically give you 77% more minion damage (at lvl20) regardless the damage type, while melee phys only 49% more now lets say you have 120% increased minion damage from the tree and gear (incl ie increased phys damage from multistrike gem). In this case 77% from the minion gem would make it total 197% increased minion damage. thats 35% more damage from the gem ((297/220)-1) thus melee phys would be better. This would be true in case your minions damage is based on phys and you have only support and auras that benefit from phys (added fire, hatred). In case you also have something else (Anger, added lightning/chaos etc gems), then youd have to consider it in your calculations. If you cant manage such calculation, educated guess will be enough (please note (not sure if you are aware of this mechanics) that damage converted from phys (raging spirit fire dmg) and added based on phys (hatred) fully benefits from applicable phys damage modifiers) IGN: Eric_Lindros CET: Timezone Last edited by Ludvator#6587 on Jan 10, 2015, 1:56:20 PM
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" Which nodes you have is relevant. if you have no base minion damage from tree/equip or low then MD gives you more than MPD. Think (if my calc is correct) the breakpoint (for lvl 20/q0) is 57% minion damage from tree/equip. |
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" I am not 100% sure of the calculation for hatred. base damage for Hatred will of course be more with MPD becuase higher physical damage. But (and I am not sure this is correct though) if MD is both increasing physical damage which is the base for Hatred AND the added cold damage from Hatred then MD will be better. I run some numbers and in that case MD was about 10% better. And if you have a Q20 gem then MD would be even better. But there are more things to consider. If you have an added fire dam gem then I am pretty sure that MPD would be better. I might have errors in my calculations though. BTW another question: If you have more than I source of "more" damage is each source multiplied or are they added together and then multiplied. Base Damage x multiplier 1 x multiplier 2 or Base Damage x (multiplier 1 + multiplier 2) |
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" If they added up like that they wouldn't really be multipliers, you know :) Wish the armchair developers would go back to developing armchairs.
◄[www.moddb.com/mods/balancedux]► ◄[www.moddb.com/mods/one-vision1]► |
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" Damage Based On and Conversion occurs before all multipliers. Hatred's base Cold Damage is calculated before Melee Phys or Minion Damage are even considered. However, Damage Based On and Converted Damage benefits from the source-type's multipliers. Hatred is based on Physical Damage, so despite it being Cold Damage, it still benefits from Melee Physical Damage. As such, modifiers can only ever apply once to any given value. Melee Phys > Minion Damage :) |
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" Ah ok great explanation. So hatred (and other converted damage) is based on base damage (is local wapon modifiers excluded also?) and is then modified by all modifiers that applies and that includes modifiers like MPD because original damage type is also included. Yes then MPD is better. Not sure if it is still better if you have Hatred + Anger like I have on my classical summoner (my SRS is using only hatred). |
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