[2.1 Ghazzy - Summoner Guides] High Budget Builds

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kuling12345 wrote:

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Ghazzy wrote:

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Archetype90 wrote:

Hi Ghazzy,

I love your builds. I am currently doing the low-budget SRS, but I am thinking about transitioning into your high-budget build.

I do have one question that has been plaguing me for a while - why Pledge of Hands? I cannot understand how this would be better then a +3 w/ cast speed, mana, and mana regen. I understand that you get a seven-link, and that you get a higher level of echo then is possible otherwise, but the cost of +4 to SRS (3 from the staff and 1 from Empower) seems so high!

Could you please explain why you emphasis that POH is unequivocally better then +3? Thanks!

Absolutely sir,
The Pledge of hands is better as long as you do not play with ZO/EB which we do not in a low life build, obviously.
The reason to this is that with the insane ammount of mana gain we get which also increases mana regen we will be able to remove mana/mana regen and/or mana cost reduction nodes from the skilltree to sustain our spirits in a Vaal Haste session. The build is designed for Uber Atziri (boss killing) so no, we do not want to use Vaal Clarity which of course is an option when mapping. This also allows you to switch out Culling Strike and implement Multistrike as long as you can sustain it without specing in to any extra mana/mana regen and/or mana cost reduction nodes. As doing that will give you less minion jewels which results in a lower end game DPS delivery!

Hi Ghazzy!

Epic build as usual! Also cool uber kill on your classic summoner.

Can you do some kind of dps calculator sheet between a BIS POH and a BIS +3 staff, so we see the damage diffrence? Or is your reasoning simply that "since we need loads of mana + mana regen, we will use POH and get extra jewels for the mana nodes we would otherwise invest in, had we used +3 staff"?

I'm just not convinced that 30 lvl spell echo 7-link beats lvl 28 SRS + 22/20 other gems 6-link(with cast speed + mana + mana regen), even with the extra mana nodes we invest in.

I'm just really stuck between which staff I should invest in, as POH 6l is a lil more expensive than +3 6l.

Hey,

It's about damn time the prices shifted...

The mana regen is not only affecting the use of more minion jewels, no. It is also making it possible for you to change culling strike for multistrike.

Now if you manage to get great stats on your gear with additional mana regen to make it possible for you to remove the extra mana stuffs and also be running with a Multistrike gem and that being sufficient to sustain SRS casting during a Vaal Haste session. Then no, Pledge would not be better.
DPS Calculation difference can be seen byt using Axazol and/or MatrixFactor's Minion DPS Calculator Sheet, problem is every calculation is different from another depending on your gear (Intelligence gain, mana regen gain, mana gain etc etc). On top of this you'd have to calculate how many mana regen/mana and/or mana cost reduction nodes you need with your specific gear to then compare that to the damage gain from the minion jewels you are able to implement instead of the other nodes.

It is a very complex and time cosuming calculation where the general guideline is: If you dont have extra mana regen on your gear or is using ZO/EB you'll do a lot more damage with the use of Pledge besides the fact that its a QoL item. Also, the item has been cheaper than a +3 up until recent changes.

Also, something you can not forget is that the difference, is, VERY minimal. We are talking about end game DPS pushing where the difference is extremely small.

Yo, thx for reply.

Haha, yeah POH costs like 10 ex more on sc atm, than the +3 staff.

So the real question is wether or not it's possible to sustain the mana required to cast SRS with a 6l multistrike on a +3 staff during vaal haste. As you said this is a min-max build, and IF it's possible AND a +3 staff is better, then thats the staff that should be used, and not POH.

So let's say I get + mana + mana regen(best t1 rolls) on all possible gear pieces aswell as the +3 staff. Do you have a rough estimation on wether or not this will be able to sustain the SRS cost? Or how many mana nodes I will need to invest in to make this work?

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kuling12345 wrote:

Yo, thx for reply.

Haha, yeah POH costs like 10 ex more on sc atm, than the +3 staff.

So the real question is wether or not it's possible to sustain the mana required to cast SRS with a 6l multistrike on a +3 staff during vaal haste. As you said this is a min-max build, and IF it's possible AND a +3 staff is better, then thats the staff that should be used, and not POH.

So let's say I get + mana + mana regen(best t1 rolls) on all possible gear pieces aswell as the +3 staff. Do you have a rough estimation on wether or not this will be able to sustain the SRS cost? Or how many mana nodes I will need to invest in to make this work?

Hey,

Minmaxing yes, I am or at least used to be the heaviest geared summoner in the game, I still am but this time in Classic Summoner style not SRS no more. And there are a limited ammount of people who have mirrorserviced the type of gear I've been using.

To answer the mana regen estimation;
If you have a t1-3 mana regen on both rings, weapon and amulet you should be in a situation where you dont need any mana regen what so ever including from tree or mana cost reductions. You can even get mana cost reduction mod on jewels however great that is, it is not the best stat ;)

So with that layout you can achieve using +3 rather than a Pledge. Looking at temp-leagues the stats you need to focus on before you bother mana regen are rather or at least were rather poor in the temp leagues and usually are pretty hard to get in temp-leagues making it smoother and better to reach minmaxed stage of whats actually available in those leagues. Where as in standard/hardcore league reaching the desired mana regen is possible but again, requires more currency which shouldnt be a problem if you've chosen to play this build in the first place ;)


Hope that answered your question properly?

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Ghazzy wrote:

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kuling12345 wrote:

Yo, thx for reply.

Haha, yeah POH costs like 10 ex more on sc atm, than the +3 staff.

So the real question is wether or not it's possible to sustain the mana required to cast SRS with a 6l multistrike on a +3 staff during vaal haste. As you said this is a min-max build, and IF it's possible AND a +3 staff is better, then thats the staff that should be used, and not POH.

So let's say I get + mana + mana regen(best t1 rolls) on all possible gear pieces aswell as the +3 staff. Do you have a rough estimation on wether or not this will be able to sustain the SRS cost? Or how many mana nodes I will need to invest in to make this work?

Hey,

Minmaxing yes, I am or at least used to be the heaviest geared summoner in the game, I still am but this time in Classic Summoner style not SRS no more. And there are a limited ammount of people who have mirrorserviced the type of gear I've been using.

To answer the mana regen estimation;
If you have a t1-3 mana regen on both rings, weapon and amulet you should be in a situation where you dont need any mana regen what so ever including from tree or mana cost reductions. You can even get mana cost reduction mod on jewels however great that is, it is not the best stat ;)

So with that layout you can achieve using +3 rather than a Pledge. Looking at temp-leagues the stats you need to focus on before you bother mana regen are rather or at least were rather poor in the temp leagues and usually are pretty hard to get in temp-leagues making it smoother and better to reach minmaxed stage of whats actually available in those leagues. Where as in standard/hardcore league reaching the desired mana regen is possible but again, requires more currency which shouldnt be a problem if you've chosen to play this build in the first place ;)


Hope that answered your question properly?

Hi

Yes, perfect, that answered my question! I'l go with the +3 since, the currency will be approx the same, having in mind that POH is 10 ex more atm on sc, where I am gonna use this build.

Have one more question for you. Why use culling/multistrike over lvl 4 Empower(5 with +3 staff)? Isn't empower, straight out a better choice for minmaxing this build?

I tried using the dps caulculator you provided the name to, but didn't seem to work calculating empower in there, or mby I just did it incorectly.

Oops, ignore my last comment, I was looking at a diffrent guide that didn't use empower. Since you are using it, I got my answer.

Hi exiles.
My first char. was a templar using life based "low-budget" build in 1.2.
Now it's time to come back and enjoy it again.





I'm planning to buy better gears later, need some time to choose perfect ones. (no-mirrored)
If you have any questions, I'd love to answer them, just send me a whisper here or in game.

Best regards,
Helfy.

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_Helfy_ wrote:

Hi exiles.
My first char. was a templar using life based "low-budget" build in 1.2.
Now it's time to come back and enjoy it again.

I'm planning to buy better gears later, need some time to choose perfect ones. (no-mirrored)
If you have any questions, I'd love to answer them, just send me a whisper here or in game.

Best regards,
Helfy.

Hey,

I see your gear is lacking a bit of ES to reach desired ammounts, whilst having the Jewels back up what the gear pieces are lacking.
How is your Uber Atziri runs? Do you feel that they are comfortable without the extra minion damage? Seeing as cast speed does not provide you with more than +0.01 sec faster casting around 8-11% increased cast speed at the later stages I really don't see the point in going heavy cast speed jewels when a Minion Damage +1x Cast speed mod on a jewel would outshine a 4x cast speed modded jewel.

Speaking of looking for better gear, I assume you are using most of those jewels for the extra energy shield however i do see jewels without that mod and seeing you are looking for better gear you can PM me in-game I got gear & jewels ranging from 1ex -> 5 mirrors b/o prices.

Hey Ghazzy, thank you for this thread, which from my perspective grew into best compendium of SRS out there and was an awesome knowledge base when planning my own build. I would like to ask you/add to the topic things i didn’t find here:

* Mana Pool - with combination you've linked we're left with 12% life and 16% mana (translating to ~280/320), however simply switching discipline with clarity leaves us with 5% life and 41% mana (~70/655). Is the 200 life difference somehow beneficial to survivability - does it change that much (freeze or stun?). I feel the 600+ free pool opens up a few possibilities - like ditching Quick Recovery nodes for 3 passives in favor of Mana flask / or even the use of MoM.

* Survivability vs dmg output - I’m rather in lower ES (7k-8k) area with my gear and found that sacrifice of 2xcast seed+damage jewel (west str node gets dumped) for Melding + Energy From Within (52% es increase) felt actually pretty powerful. I’m really curious what’s your take on that - does the BiS gear granting ~10k ES pool feel enough for new split phases bosses (core malachai?). I’m really curious where the cutting edge is here.

* This is a little bit OT - if you put PCoC on SRS they seem to generate power charges. Any info on their actual crit chance?

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kwedo wrote:

Hey Ghazzy, thank you for this thread, which from my perspective grew into best compendium of SRS out there and was an awesome knowledge base when planning my own build. I would like to ask you/add to the topic things i didn’t find here:

* Mana Pool - with combination you've linked we're left with 12% life and 16% mana (translating to ~280/320), however simply switching discipline with clarity leaves us with 5% life and 41% mana (~70/655). Is the 200 life difference somehow beneficial to survivability - does it change that much (freeze or stun?). I feel the 600+ free pool opens up a few possibilities - like ditching Quick Recovery nodes for 3 passives in favor of Mana flask / or even the use of MoM.

* Survivability vs dmg output - I’m rather in lower ES (7k-8k) area with my gear and found that sacrifice of 2xcast seed+damage jewel (west str node gets dumped) for Melding + Energy From Within (52% es increase) felt actually pretty powerful. I’m really curious what’s your take on that - does the BiS gear granting ~10k ES pool feel enough for new split phases bosses (core malachai?). I’m really curious where the cutting edge is here.

* This is a little bit OT - if you put PCoC on SRS they seem to generate power charges. Any info on their actual crit chance?

It's my genuine pleasure, it is my dream to be able to do streaming on fulltime so i can deliver higher quality and more of these type of threads for the community! :)

The decision between Clarity and Discipline on life or not is up to you, the difference is truly meaningless with proper gear.
Mind Over Matter would ruin your completely, basically when you take a hit you drop DPS insanely as well making it a counterproductive keystone to get. However I have always promoted people to tweak any build they chose to play to optimize it for their own playstyle, afterall, this is a game, make sure you have good time playing it! The build displayed is how I prefer to play it but there are always ways of tweaking even the best of builds in the game.

7-8k ES is in the "very low" category if you ask me, this is a high budget build and should be considered as such. The cutting edge in terms of defensive approach to this build to have the very best is when you hit 9.8k+ ES this allows you to survive the hardest hits from Atziri when in a really bad spot. I know this cause I used to survive that hard hit with the extra life i had a few times before optimizing some gear slots by crafting the BiS Summoner gear I actually have up for sale as I am desperately trying to afford making a Classic Summoner High Budget build enter this thread with a slot. ;)

All minions have a base crit chance of 5% with the default starting Crit dmg multiplier like any other player.

Hi ghazzy, i wanna do a quick question, it is really worth to put quality con srs? im leveling 6 extra srs gems so i can corrupt them, but i dont know if quality them first. Thanks in advance and sorry for bad english.


P.S: you cant use mind over matter on a ES build :P