I'm back to ground slam again. Why is lightning strike so bad? Help.

As the title says, I can't make lightning strike viable. Ground slam is always better.
I wanted to play a 1h LS templar and that's how I built my passives. But I'm level 70 now and ground slam has just been better all the way, and still is.

Ground slam is better than LS in my experience because:

- targeting is easier.
- it hits more targets, even more targets than LS+chain+fork.
- it does more damage.
- it costs less mana.
- it leeches more life.
- it accomplishes all this with fewer support gems.

Ok so there you have it, now, please take a look at my build and gear and tell me,

WHAT AM I DOING WRONG?

Build
Spoiler

http://www.pathofexile.com/passive-skill-tree/AAAAAgUAAnEEswVbDjwUIBRNFHEWbxmFGjIaOB0UJKooxTIJMokzljboNuk6UjwFQYxBqkRyRtdMNU3YT31QR1FgValVxlYEV-JYr1nzXcZgbWCIYVJmnnB9cLtyqXM_d-V82YBWgW-DOITEhmCHKYuMjHaPRpBVl7SdgJ48n8uf36IApzCnhKmVrKq0-cAaz2XQ0N3z42rsOO988B_zvvba9zL3vvjr-tL9zw==

Gear (all gems might not make sense, I moved them around for testing a bit.)
Spoiler

I will quote myself from another thread:
"
chrisguitar wrote:
@MeanMug:

There are a few problems with your build:

First of all, melee modifiers (+% melee damage) will only apply to the initial hit on your target and not the Lightning-Strike-projectiles (the game treats them like arrows from a bow).
But those projectiles will be the bulk of your dps.

On the other hand passive modifiers which increase the damage of a specific weapon (for example +8% damage with maces) WILL apply to the projectiles (note that those nodes don't mention "melee" anywhere).

So avoid any passives which explicitly say "melee" (this includes those that say "increases 2H melee") and focus on one specific weapon type instead.

Secondly, try to avoid elemental damage. It only applies to 50% of the damage for LS, while +weapon damage (like +% mace damage) apply to all of the LS damage (note: if you use a weapon which mainly does lightning damage for some reason, the elemental nodes will be more worthwhile, but most weapons will mainly do physical damage).
One exception is Catalyze because of its huge modifier (30%).

Consider working towards Iron Grip, because the LS-projectiles do not benefit from your strength out of the box (remember those are projectiles, just like arrows from a bow).
Iron Grip will change that and because you are far down in the marauder tree, you will have a significant amount of strength.

Consider taking Resolute Technique, because Templars don't have good accuracy and you would have to invest many skillpoints into crit-increasing nodes to make it worthwhile (and it is on the way to a nice cluster of +mace damage, if you consider using maces).

TL;DR:
Don't use +% melee damage modifiers AT ALL they don't apply to the projectiles.
Use nodes which add physical damage for a specific weapon type instead, those are not melee specific and will apply to the projectiles.
Try to avoid elemental modifiers (only take them if they are on your path any way), those only apply to 50% of the damage.
Consider taking Iron Grip for a significant boost in projectile damage which will be your main DPS.
Consider taking Resolute Technique.

Source: http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/65351 and http://en.pathofexilewiki.com/wiki/Lightning_Strike

Here is an example for a 2H mace LS templar:


I don't think I've picked that many % damage modifiers at all. Remember, I have played 70 levels and all the way, ground slam has been better than LS.

If iron grip doesnt make a HUGE difference (double) in damage, ground slam still wins. Read the pros I wrote in the OP. I could add to that list that ground slam stuns. Even if lightning strike somehow ended up doing a bit more damage than ground slam, all the other pros would still heavily favour using ground slam.

I don't see how my passive tree is favouring ground slam over lightning strike.

I want to use LS, but it just sucks.
Chris, do you know if skills like Strong Arm [18% Increased Physical Damage with One Handed Melee Weapons] apply to the projectiles? I understand regarding a skill like Melee Damage [12% Increased Melee Physical Damage], but the wording is different between both skills and Strong Arm seems to imply that it would work with LS.
Not having too much luck myself but this is my gem setup. I deal 1k dps right now.



I do well enough with solo and small groups but ranged characters farm multitudes faster than I do.
Last edited by crazyfingers619#3901 on Feb 6, 2013, 7:20:08 AM
Ground Slam - Attack, AoE, Melee
Lightning Strike - Attack, Lightning, Projectile, Melee

LS projectiles will scale off projectile affecting nodes, most notably for str builds, iron grip. Endgame you will probably have 300 str without trying too hard, thats a 60% dmg buff to the projectiles right there.

Another, point blank (support gem since the passive is way too far for templars), 50% extra dmg to things standing right in front of you, making LS pretty decent single target dps

LS is probably better with pierce/LMP/Projectile Weakness than chain. LS gem adds 3% pierce per quality, so you can play around with a combination of projectile weakness, quality LS gem and pierce support gem to make the projectiles pierce 100%, with LMP thats probably much better than chain fork imo, as the damage just keeps decreasing as they projectiles chain and fork. That would mean the projectiles deal the most dmg to the mobs at the front (which is annoying since you would want all the mobs to drop dead at the same time) And if you use both the curse and the quality gem to get 100% pierce, you can save 1 gem slot.

Some of your build points are a bit questionable, the long journey down just to grab unwavering stance isnt really worth it. If you remove all the points from below resolute technique, 20++ points and take the marauder starting point nodes. There are plenty of efficient nodes there, like for example a cluster of nodes that give 45% to all resists for just 7 points! You also took 3 points worth of increased aoe at the templar starting area, which doesnt affect LS at all.

Heres a thread discussing LS mechanics http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/65351/highlight/
I'm level 40 and my lighting strike does 50% more dps than groundslam because of elemental nodes.

But I have some questions regarding lighting strike anyway. How is a melee hit damage calculated with lightning strike? If i stand at distance and attack with shift only one projectile hits and does decent damage, but if i hit melee all 3 projectiles go out behind the target and the maintarget takes even more damage. Does anyone know the calculation of how much damage the main target takes? I'm guessing point blank also works (seen that) so even the melee hit is projectile damage?
"
jasondazed wrote:
Chris, do you know if skills like Strong Arm [18% Increased Physical Damage with One Handed Melee Weapons] apply to the projectiles? I understand regarding a skill like Melee Damage [12% Increased Melee Physical Damage], but the wording is different between both skills and Strong Arm seems to imply that it would work with LS.

It won't affect the LS Projectiles, because the description contains "melee".
The initial hit on the targeted monster will however be affected.
"
poepoepoepoepoe wrote:
Ground Slam - Attack, AoE, Melee
Lightning Strike - Attack, Lightning, Projectile, Melee

LS projectiles will scale off projectile affecting nodes, most notably for str builds, iron grip. Endgame you will probably have 300 str without trying too hard, thats a 60% dmg buff to the projectiles right there.

Another, point blank (support gem since the passive is way too far for templars), 50% extra dmg to things standing right in front of you, making LS pretty decent single target dps

LS is probably better with pierce/LMP/Projectile Weakness than chain. LS gem adds 3% pierce per quality, so you can play around with a combination of projectile weakness, quality LS gem and pierce support gem to make the projectiles pierce 100%, with LMP thats probably much better than chain fork imo, as the damage just keeps decreasing as they projectiles chain and fork. That would mean the projectiles deal the most dmg to the mobs at the front (which is annoying since you would want all the mobs to drop dead at the same time) And if you use both the curse and the quality gem to get 100% pierce, you can save 1 gem slot.

Some of your build points are a bit questionable, the long journey down just to grab unwavering stance isnt really worth it. If you remove all the points from below resolute technique, 20++ points and take the marauder starting point nodes. There are plenty of efficient nodes there, like for example a cluster of nodes that give 45% to all resists for just 7 points! You also took 3 points worth of increased aoe at the templar starting area, which doesnt affect LS at all.

Heres a thread discussing LS mechanics http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/65351/highlight/

Thx for your informative post!

So let's say that I can get the AoE on par with ground slam with pierce and LMP, that will still cost a LOT more mana and if the damage is not INSANE, it still won't outweigh the other pros I stated in my OP. AND since I'm using it with 2 support gems, it will have to compare to ground slam with 2 support gems, for example increased melee and faster attacks.

I just want to discuss this before I sink my entire currency bank into orbs of regret. I really do feel that LS will have to do a substantial amount more damage than ground slam to outweigh ground slam's mechanics.
"
chrisguitar wrote:
"
jasondazed wrote:
Chris, do you know if skills like Strong Arm [18% Increased Physical Damage with One Handed Melee Weapons] apply to the projectiles? I understand regarding a skill like Melee Damage [12% Increased Melee Physical Damage], but the wording is different between both skills and Strong Arm seems to imply that it would work with LS.

It won't affect the LS Projectiles, because the description contains "melee".
The initial hit on the targeted monster will however be affected.


The first passive in his question doesn't say "melee damage". It says "melee weapon".

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