(Helping GGG in) Creating a unique item: a breakdown of the breakdown

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NeroNoah wrote:

Yeah, I'm having fun, :P I'm probably one of the few Vorthos (with a little of Johnny) out there in this game.

You are not alone. Vorthos/Johnny for life!

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LimitedRooster wrote:

Can totally understand not being satisfied with your purchase if they won't allow something as innocuous level based affixes.

In the general case, we consider level-based affixes to be about as far from innocuous as possible. We have a general rule against them, for good reasons, which we are specifically and explicitly allowing ourselves to break in a specific case, under certain specific conditions, while being aware of the consequences, and still keeping the general rule in effect for regular items.

While I can appreciate how that would seem disappointing to someone who tried to get such affixes on a supporter item and was told "no", we have specific reasons for that being against the rules, and we also have the flexibility to allow ourselves to break our rules if we have to when appropriate - this isn't just us randomly changing our mind.

I wish I had found this thread earlier. This was a very interesting read and I feel like I'd like to share some thoughts about my experience when I designed my unique. It was not back in closed beta, but was from the open beta supporter packs so it's a lot newer than some of you.

This might be a very strange view for me to take, but I feel like I cannot relate to any of the frustrations that your post talks about. Was my experience the exception rather than the rule? Right off the bat I had asked Rory to add me on an instant messenger and we brainstormed ideas back and forth, sometimes for hours. I really found them to be enjoyable experiences.

I approached creating the item as something that would be timeless, which is basically, unaffected by meta-shifts by making the item specifically force you to build around it. At the same time, it had to give you something that would ALWAYS be relevant. The best way to do that is to make your unique give you some form of survival since that will always be relevant. Back then, mana was largely a useless resource outside of aura reservations and having enough to spam your primary skill. All I wanted my unique to do was to make mana a resource you cared about.

I had most certainly not started this with "mana shield" in mind, but came up with the idea in one of our brainstorming sessions. There was some distortion over whether it was actually possible to code or not, but eventually we found out that it could be done.

To be honest, I found Rory gave me huge latitude in what my item could have. He was extremely willing to work with me and discuss possibilities and how certain affixes would end up affecting builds and such. If I ever find some of my old chatlogs, I will post some of the crazy ideas we had thrown back and forth.

Of course, what ended up happening was settling on "mana shield" and the numbers were up to them. A couple weeks before the unique was to be released, I was informed that GGG liked the affix we developed so much they wanted to make it a keystone.

If I have any regrets, it was that making it a keystone took away the uniqueness of Cloak of Defiance. However, how many supporters can say they designed a keystone for the game? So honestly I cannot complain at all. To be able to affect the game on a level like that was certainly more than I expected to do with my little unique. If I remember correctly there have only been 2 uniques that have spawned a keystone (the other one being Ghost Reaver) so it certainly felt special.

Outside of this little nitpick, I was extremely happy with the end result. I'd like to think the community has enjoyed using both my unique and the keystone. Indeed, I have seen more than a few builds utilize one or the other.

Perhaps it did help that I study game design as well. I took a very involved approach with each and every mod and made sure they were what made sense. I was never told a simple "no" or made to follow some invisible rulebook. I genuinely felt like I was simply brainstorming idea after idea with Rory until the best one stuck. Do PM me or reply to this if you have any thoughts on this matter, because it is extremely shocking to me that many people have not had the great experience I did while I designed my unique!

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Charan wrote:

I have to say I find your experience the exception, Hrishi, and I was unashamedly jealous that your work was being 'immortalised' as a keystone! It's right up there with Zahndethus' and spawning the 'blind' support.

But you're describing your first experience. I described mine, and it was no less congenial and effusive and crazy and awesome.

I'd actually be interested in hearing from second and third timers (that's your cue, Z...)...

That's actually a very good point. I found your first unique experience very similar to mine. The reason I thought it was so was because it was quite a while back, way before open beta even came around. My entire process happened through the end of open beta, which is considerably "newer" than some of the supporters here!

I guess the point of this was to say that the great experience probably isn't related to how old the unique is? I know Rory was very backed up on work while mine was being designed. There have to be more factors than simply overwork, although I'd be lying if I said I didn't think it was a factor.

And yes, I was absolutely stunned when I heard it was becoming a keystone. I might have been a little sad that it took away from the "uniqueness" of my unique, but I figured being able to impact the game like that was worth more than that.

I feel like it's extremely hard to design a weapon that will always be relevant in the years to come (extremely special mods like Soul Taker notwithstanding) because the game HAS to move forward and there are always going to be bigger and better swords. In order to design a timeless weapon, you pretty much HAVE to come up with some sort of defining affix that will stand the test of time, and that's not easy!

An example of this sort of mod is the one on Terminus Est. Forget the fact that the weapon is used very little, the mod is extremely special and defining to the weapon. I remember one of my first characters used Flicker Strike along with Terminus Est to Flicker Strike forever!

Cloak of Defiance will (hopefully) have the chance to stand the test of time because of the unique way it interacts with the game on a plane that nothing else does (besides the keystone, of course). What I'm trying to say is.. it doesn't matter how much more health characters get, or how much more armour characters are given. A mod that allows you to use mana to take 40% of the damage you take will always be semi-relevant. It might not be the best, it might even be underpowered, but it will have a purpose.

Romira's Banquet is another example of such a unique. Even though it wasn't designed for this purpose, I think it will always be relevant as it's one of the few ways you can make Cold Snap your primary skill. Even if Cold Snap is weak, or underpowered, it will have that niche place.

This is my advice to people who are hoping to design something new, I hope I made some sense in the midst of all my ramblings. I certainly had help because I study game design and found it a lot easier to do this, but honestly anybody who plays games should know enough to design something cool :D

This one I can answer completely

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Nightmare90 wrote:

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Metronomy wrote:

Regarding camouflage predator, anyone else notice its not spawning in the nemesis mods in the 1 month?

It got removed entirely after or while the 4-month nemesis. Personally I liked it but it may have caused many RIPs at high levels. Dunno about that exactly.

Camouflaged Predator had to be removed because it caused problems on certain systems with certain settings that we didn't catch before it was initially released. We are unable to put it back in in a reasonable form until the technical issues with it are overcome - GGG devs have been told no about this one as well when they want to use it for a a boss/skill/item/etc. We want to get it back in, and intend to in future when we can find a solution, at which point it'll presumably be available for custom items as well, assuming they can be balanced with it's power.

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deathspenalty wrote:

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NeroNoah wrote:

Two random thoughts about poorly designed uniques:

-Soultaker depends on the meta to be overpowered (correct me if I'm wrong =D). If more mana is available somehow (less aura reservation, mana leech, blood magic passive actually being useful) there are less reasons to use it. Maybe other choices can give more power to the user.
I don't think is going to be nerfed soon. Let's see the aura changes in the new patch.

-The new unique(s?) with a level dependant property have a transformative theme; they are not items you can use in the same character (it works as two uniques in one in function of the level). If a levelling affix that works for all levels is introduced, you have the risk the item becomes too useful for everyone (who wouldn't want a item that you don't need to think anything about, not even in maps?). You can make it for an early - mid level, but then, maybe levelling uniques fill that roll already. So, level-depending affixes should be the exception, not the rule, and with good reasons. Anyway, I'd like to hear about the level-depending uniques proposed by those who buyed the right to assist in the design. I could be awfully wrong, :P

PS for GGG, whose people read the thread: acuity deserves a nerf. It's infuriating Vaal Pact was arruined, and THAT thing was released, a old-Vaal-Pact-like item for critical-strike-builds. And without the no regeneration drawback. It makes a keystone irrelevant for those who already have too much power anyways. That was shitty.

Actually soultaker is not that meta dependant. Some builds just need a insane mana per second cost to cover their casting. Something like dominating blow, if you want it 6 linked, you can pretty much forget about using it without soultaker.

You can also use the Reduced mana cost nodes on the tree to sustain a 6L Dominating Blow. Those nodes are extremely underrated in my opinion.

I do believe that Soul Taker is only overpowered based on the current metagame. Of course, it's ALWAYS going to be strong.

I must say I was fairly shocked that my unique was one of the most used during the month race in both HC and non-HC. It was supposed to be for a niche build...