specific feedback on HC facebreaker infernal blow templar

Gear:

Passive:
http://www.pathofexile.com/passive-skill-tree/AAAAAgUAAnEEswVbFE0WbxkuGYUaMho4HRQkqiftKMU26TrYPAVEckw1TdhPfVBQUWBUSVXGVw1YY1nzXz9mnmoecql82YBWgW-DOITEi4yMdozPj0aQVZ48n9-gtKIApwinhKgYqZWsqrndwBrG2M9l0NDZYeNq51LsOO8O73zwH_Iv8wbzvvPd9kj60vuq_c8=

Stats: level 57
2715~ maximum life
trivial amount of energy shield
70 life / sec
estimated 30% reduction (around 1500 armor)
50-75% in all resistances w/o endurance charges
-52% chaos resistance
45% block
5% spell block
-30% critical damage

Skills Used:
Clarity
Infernal Blow + Added Fire + More Melee Physical
Dominating Blow
Enfeeble (not enough sockets to use, but planned to be used)
Enduring Cry
Ice Nova (breaking crates and chilling monkies)
Rejuvenation Totem

Took:
40 life oak
12% IPD% oak
<didn't do merciless quest yet>

1. This build was very fun from 16-30. It got boring after that. DPS at level 57 was 1400. My facebreaker has a bad roll, but it's the best I could get my hands on in HC. My CB melee witch had a 2k double strike at 58, and my alpha LS templar has a 2k dps lightning strike, so while I can imagine with a 950%+ FB, my single target DPS becomes comparable... but the lack of AOE for this spec is simply debilitating.
2. This build's dps is very ring/necklace reliant. Finding jewelry that gives +life, +reists and a high physical damage roll is a pain. It's basically saying, "You like hunting for one good weapon every 5-7 levels? Well, have fun hunting for three every 10."
3. Even with the Templar's amazing 15% resists w/ a shield passive, I still ended up relying on an angel kite shield to make it through Cruel. I can't see myself using anything else on any other shield character either. The angel kite shield should be adjusted downward I think, or all other shields need a stronger reason to be used, besides a slightly higher block chance. It feels like I'm only gimping myself using them.
4. Giving up your main hand weapon sacrifices a lot of necessary sockets and is a much bigger downside than I anticipated.
5. The Magnate unique belt (10-25 physical damage) is absolutely needed for this build to be good. Not using it really gimps your dps. Wish I could afford that thing, but EVERYONE wants one. It sells for a zillion exalteds.
6. Infernal Blow's damage component (fire) makes it absolutely obnoxious in all the major farming zones (due to fire resistance), the area of effect component does very little splash damage even against non fire resistant monsters. Granted, I didn't abuse its firery nature. In the long-term, I was going to hook up a chance to ignite on hit and get the Templar burn damage passives, with infernal blow, BUT because I couldn't afford the mana cost even with clarity up, I had to use a 3L infernal blow even at level 58.
7. Probably the main reason why this build is so boring is the cost of frenzy. I won't be able to use the skill until one more level from now (finally) because of its dex cost to use. Converting 50% of your high physical damage to fire is NOT a boon when using facebreaker, because of monster resistances compared to monster armor rating. You need a main skill, since you can't link up your normal auto-attack with support gems, so you're "forced" to use infernal blow unless you get a lot of dex. Also, because of the increased cost to faster attacks, you need even more dex to make facebreaker work in the long-run, since you NEED to kill things as fast as possible with single-target damage.
8. Single target damage builds are boring. Or at least, this is the reason why facebreaker become boring to me. I would run into huge packs of monsters and SIGH because I knew it would take me forever to kill them all. I stopped one-shotting monsters at around level 35 and was 3-5 shotting skeletons in merciless fellshrine, which is ultimately why I died. I was playing POE too long today and got fatigued and got surrounded by skeletons that were taking too long to die and I must have gotten crit all at once because even with my amazing 20% instant heal flasks BEING SPAMMED I still died sadface.
9. Monkies rape this build. Seriously, I cannot fight little monkies with this build. It is completely impossible, if I'm faced with a swarm. I imagine I won't be able to solo maps end-game with this build if those maps have large swarms of little monkies. Squids come in smaller packs and are thus managable.

In summary:

Facebreaker is an interesting unique with some amount of power to it, but does not appear to trump conventional melee builds. Indeed, it has a large array of problems which may make it weaker than probably most successful HC melee builds. It might be the only 1h+shield melee build that doesn't have to worry about its single target DPS though (but both kinds of builds do have AOE problems, or at least, comparing my old cleave Ranger rapier+shield to this Templar... both had a rough time with large skeleton packs in merciless).

The changes from 0.10.0, from mana costs to attribute requirements, have made facebreaker builds difficult to pull off (it's NOT trivial getting high resist, high life and high physical damage rolls WITH increased attribute mods on accessories) compared to CB facebreaker builds. The inability to exploit quivers for their effects have also reduced the ways you can build facebreaker, you kind of are forced to focus on physical damage instead of trying to interact with the unique in some creative way. You're also forced to use a shield with facebreaker (why doesn't dual-wield unarmed come with some attack speed bonus?). Overall, this build feels like you're heavily constrained while using it, instead of it being "free-ing".

Oh and, finding chaos resistance on gear is impossible. Maybe this is just MY experience, maybe others have found it different, but I have not found one good piece of chaos resistance gear yet for Merciless play. Basically, it's going to take me at least 1 to 2 weeks of solid farming, I'm guessing, before I can even try to do the western/northern-parts of A2 -- if I were still on HC anyway. I suppose I'll keep leveling this FB in default and see where it goes, but if he were still in HC, I wouldn't even try to touch A2 content with -52% chaos resist...

Suggestions:
*Improve unarmed interaction with skills in the future (more unarmed skills or ways support gems can interact with unarmed physical damage); it's really boring that all the things I can think of for a Facebreaker build involve passive supports (adding fire dmaage, adding more melee physical damage and increasing attack speed or life leech, are basically 'required' to make infernal blow work; there's no chain, fork, LMP, etc. that make these skills "fun" to use)
*Consider balanced ways to give facebreaker builds area of effect attacks (that don't suck)
*Dominating Blow's mana cost seems extremely high (43 at the moment), I think I understand why this is, but using it with support gems seems out of the question...? It's attack-based, so any high attack speed is going to leave you dry in seconds.
*Ice Nova's mana cost seems rather high for its awful base DPS
*Chaos Resistance uniques. Something like the goldrim cap...?
*Rejuvenation Totem is great. Probably the only reason I made it through Cruel with this character. Don't change it -- but I think it would be interesting if some supports could interact with this skill in some manner.
*Life leech support gem for Templar? Urgh. I didn't get offered one. I guess he doesn't get one? I imagine I wouldn't have lost him if I'd just fucking bought one but I was being cheap and mad that it wasn't being offered (even though I was offered reduced mana so many times I actually SOLD 5 of them I think, made tons of chaos orbs); same thing with Vulnerability Curse...? I wanted Enfeeble for SOOOO long and I had to wait until 50 before it dropped. I get that I should be trading, and I get you guys don't care for changing the rewards to suit experienced players' tastes, but even so... really annoying. I should have just bought a life leech gem, but it was gonna cost me an arm and a leg (I even offered one guy my only regal for one and he wanted MORE).

They are not basing the game around unique items, most of them are just oddities.

"

ReZar wrote:

They are not basing the game around unique items, most of them are just oddities.

Of course not. And I don't expect them to buff Facebreaker; Mark has said they don't want to buff/nerf uniques once they are live on the servers.

The feedback here I think is more or less related to 0.10.0 changes and the frustrations of having to stack life sooo hard in HC while keeping your "non main attribute" high, as well as the "boringness" of 1h melee builds and the lack of area of effect damage. It's probably a main reason for the lack of melee characters in POE. We need more support gems for melee skills.

I always wonder why they specifically chose infernal blow, and only infernal blow, to be the only remotely aoe skill for unarmed.

amazing feedback anu, sure they will read and take onboard. was chaos damage a big issue?

"

tinghshi wrote:

I always wonder why they specifically chose infernal blow, and only infernal blow, to be the only remotely aoe skill for unarmed.

If you watch the BOTW facebreaker build, you'll notice Chris is one-shotting rares. I was not doing this, obviously. I was killing them rather slowly; at best now, with weapon elemental damage and quiver abuse gone, facebreaker with optimal gear will give you average two-handed weapon single target physical DPS to a one-handed weapon. You can use a shield with this unique two-handed weapon, that's probably the notable upside to this build, not that it does insane damage anymore (it doesn't, I imagine with an optimal set up I could reach 5-6k DPS with infernal blow, maybe 7k with 4 frenzy charge frenzy). In softcore I could reach much higher DPS I think, but as you can see, my build is reasonably tanky for my level and I still was somehow obliterated in fucking fellshrine by some stupid melee skeletons... god I feel so stupid...

Infernal blow was chosen because it's not really an AOE. I mean, it's basically a weapon-attack that does its area of effect damage based on caster attributes - elemental damage, fire damage, and burn damage. Having a facebreaker doesn't make the skill do any extra area of effect damage. Infernal blow was chosen because it carries with it zero potential abusability. I imagine if facebreaker could use cleave, leap slam or sweep to deal its damage in an area (however nonsensical those skills would be with your fist), it would have been deemed too strong -- at least with the old damage values (20k+ dps). With the new damage values? Well, let's just say, I think it would be fine, though, I can agree we should maybe make facebreaker more special by making it focused on single-target damage first and fore-most. Facebreaker could be "too good" if it worked with lightning strike, for instance, though I actually think it would be on par with a "very slick 1h+shield build".

In any case, I would like to see chain/fork/LMP-like supports for melee skills. They could be very balanced with facebreaker, notably because it only gets 1 6L and 3 less sockets than most players, you're very, very limited in how many skills you can link up.

Also, it does feel silly using a shield with your fist. I would really love to see a quality of life change for "unarmed dual wielding" -- a bonus to punching with both hands empty. Obviously, dual wield block shouldn't be possible. My proposed effect:

+15% IAS
+15% more critical strike chance

Right now, resolute technique is "absolutely necessary". Getting increased crit with unarmed wouldn't be very easy anyway, so the 15% more critical strike chance would give a deeper meaning to trying to stack crit from accessories and passive skills/support gems.

--

By the way, I technically think this build has the greatest potential to be "good" - notably because of the attack speed and frenzy charges (7), though you become significantly less tanky than my Templar spec



If someone wants to try a Duelist Facebreaker, let me know how that build goes

Really great feedback relying on actual experience you gave there.
Hope the Devs will look into your Char and play around with it a bit.

Also did you level Dominating Blow?
Heard of a Witch Facebreaker using Minion Instability who also said that DB mana usage is way to high to be bearable on a leveled gem.

I started a duelist with facebreaker, anyone have any ideas on how I should build my tree..

I agree with Anubite that something should be done. Big portion of the skill tree doesn't work with unarmed + no critical chance and no weapon really made this build unfun whilst a small change could mean the diffrence