My plans for OB - The Clonuelist.

TL;DR - Wiped my char(s), Waiting for OB, this is my dedicated build to invest in come January 23rd.

So i went ahead yesterday and deleted my only character, In preparation for OB. My build was messed up anyway and its close enough that i don't want to start another (NEVER go to the middle in a Duelist. NEVER!).

My plan for OB is to stick to the following Duelist build, Melded from the various theory crafts people have already done on my favorite play style (swords, dual wield) - Ceto, Moosifer, TheAxiom etc. I've did some threads about this before, and this will also bore the hell out of most of the mentioned people and others :)

Base assumptions: Dual Wield. Swords. Evasion without A/PA sucks. Armor sucks generally. LIFE LIFE LIFE.

I'm going to push this one as my sole character on Default until i can get to the low 80s at least, and try to maximize the gear on it as well, Maybe get a 6L finally. Being casual, That's pretty much the best i can hope for.

I'll consider this a successful build if i make it to 10k DPS when I'm higher level, around 75 or so. Note that i am a very casual player (by comparison to most dedicated players here), i play 1-3 hours a day in days i DO play. So this might take me a month where others take a week.

So without (much) further wall-of-text, Here's the planned build:



Build Details:

It's pretty standard - Dual Strike and Cleave, Lots of life and regen to keep up Blood Rage and its Frenzy charges. Enduring Cry for endurance charges, Warlord's for leech and more endurance and probably IR+US because being a real hybrid still sucks terribly compared to the alternative. I'd rather have life as my defense with the dual wield block rather than a meager amount of evasion and terrible armor to boot.

Flasks are probably still a customary Granite for sticky situations with mobs and a few diamonds to quickly regen/wipe a mob when needed.

I'm going to try Flicker Strike as well this time, After seeing Ceto's videos and remembering Epsi's daggers Shadow, But it's more of a secondary attack beyond my mine single-target and AoE skills.

So, Dual Strike, Cleave, Flicker Strike, Warlords, Enduring Cry, Blood Rage, Whirling for escape maneuvers. All evasion gear if i do take IR, Otherwise probably all armor gear and Grace for the decent evasion chance. I'll probably use Anger because it's so low cost and maybe try Ceto's idea for Wrath and shock chance, But i don't like trying to gimp other stuff to gather the needed INT stat. Maybe Haste will get a buff some day.

Build Walkthrough:

Start with the left starting area path, go down to Golem's Blood. Take the first right starting node for 6% IAS sometime, Order not important. Grab middle start life circle while you're at it. Go towards Diamond Skin since we'll be near Cruel by this level. Go grab Blood Magic and then IR and US. It's a good time to race to the Mara starting point for Blood Drinker, general STR nodes (life and phys damage), Life nodes and the extra resists and regen so we can sustain Blood Rage. Might as well grab the extra endurance charge there and near the Golem's Blood circle. Now go grab all the life nodes above and to the left of IR, Thick Skin nodes and the STR notable and life nodes. At this point, We should have a decent amount of life (trusting you got some life on your gear) and defenses. Try to get some resists on your rings and such as well. Now it's time for DPS, So we can grab Ambidexterity, Berserking (could have grabbed this earlier, i guess), Cruel Blade near the bottom of the Duelist tree middle, Blade Master circle and the Frenzy charge near it and Fending up over Ambidexterity.

Bandits quest: I really hate the concept of helping criminals for a bonus as far as the role playing mentality goes, But if you don't give a damn - I'd probably take Oak's bonus this time around. More life is more defense is surviving longer (or at all), Even at the loss of a few skill points. They might end up being equivalent or better than some of the STR/Life nodes we wanted to take, So why the heck not.

General considerations: Might not have enough mitigation, So would need to adjust and grab some armor/evasion nodes. But since DPS might also suffer unless i can get very good swords/rapiers, That might have to be a concession in order to get that 10k dps target. Might also need to grab some of the +30 DEX nodes to have enough to wield the higher end dex gear, Even if i have a +20 Onyx amulet and/or the +30 INT nodes if i really do want Wrath.

All comments are welcome, i guess, but don't expect me to incorporate it or math-fight it out with you either way ;)

Caveat about the duelist: I really, really hate the starting area. I feel like I'm wasting points until i get to the new life circle or the old Golem's Blood circle. It's annoying compared to all other classes.

---------------

Final note (I'm almost done, I swear!): I've said this countless times, But still. Thank you GGG for this awesome game. Thank you Ceto, Moosifer, TheAxiom, drakenar888 (I always get your name wrong, don't i :( ) and others who helped me throughout my play time so far.

FIN.
Playing a dual-wielding swordsman of some kind.
In game name is Kaosu and/or ChaosBlade.
pretzty much what i planned to roll in OB, but my plan was to not pick any weapon based dmg nodes, until i get a "semi-end game weapon", that ill be able to use into the 60s.

what skills/auras are you planning on using?
That is nice and efficient, I would recommend Elemental Adaptation for end game, this will really be noticeable as a melee user. Also depending on what weapons you use and if you get any weapons with ele dmg on them lava lash would be a big increase in dps.

Other than that the build does work though it is important to keep those weapons updated, and stacking that life is insanely important.

My Duelist DW build is very similar to this, as will many DW duelist builds be, if they are planning it to be efficient. I do also have EA and lava lash. I am level 67 on Hc ladder right now and I have played with self found gear, not wanting to rely on stash because it would not be a very good test for things like 1 week events or OB. It is quite a difficult build to play because due to the very nature of it you do take a lot of damage all the time once you hit Merciless. But it is a very fast and reaction based build and I like that. I actually decided to do Vaal on merciless at level 57 with 2200 hp and from what I know not many people would do that haha but again wanted to see what was possible and luckily I managed to kill him though I had many close calls. And I am now upto 3K health which is definitely desirable when doing maps.


Overall the build does work, though in terms of dps/survivability it still is not as efficient as the Ranger DW variation as posted by Ceto on the ranger thread. But it is still a good alternative.

Grace, Wrath and Anger work pretty good, and you have the choice of using warlord's mark or Temp chains/enfeeble for certain encounters. Keeping endurance charges always up is the only annoying thing with this build, though if you use WM that generally is not too much of a problem.
Last edited by Desbris on December 21, 2012 2:53 PM
Ya pretty basic. Hold off on setting this in stone. My acro/shield ranger failed in alpha so I'm finally doing a 2h duelist. Gonna try out some concepts I've been working with in my head but skill/playstyle wise it will be similar to inva's flicker shadow + my 2h duelist.

So far the theories are working but late game alot can change (as the acro/shield build didn't fail until 40 up until then it was amazing then suddenly couldn't kill or survive anything).

I feel like this will work, it's working like every other successful duelist I've done before and it's not like there's too many options.
My garbage (Rampage) - http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1001100
"
Desbris wrote:
That is nice and efficient, I would recommend Elemental Adaptation for end game, this will really be noticeable as a melee user. Also depending on what weapons you use and if you get any weapons with ele dmg on them lava lash would be a big increase in dps.

Other than that the build does work though it is important to keep those weapons updated, and stacking that life is insanely important.

My Duelist DW build is very similar to this, as will many DW duelist builds be, if they are planning it to be efficient. I do also have EA and lava lash. I am level 67 on Hc ladder right now and I have played with self found gear, not wanting to rely on stash because it would not be a very good test for things like 1 week events or OB. It is quite a difficult build to play because due to the very nature of it you do take a lot of damage all the time once you hit Merciless. But it is a very fast and reaction based build and I like that. I actually decided to do Vaal on merciless at level 57 with 2200 hp and from what I know not many people would do that haha but again wanted to see what was possible and luckily I managed to kill him though I had many close calls. And I am now upto 3K health which is definitely desirable when doing maps.


Overall the build does work, though in terms of dps/survivability it still is not as efficient as the Ranger DW variation as posted by Ceto on the ranger thread. But it is still a good alternative.

Grace, Wrath and Anger work pretty good, and you have the choice of using warlord's mark or Temp chains/enfeeble for certain encounters. Keeping endurance charges always up is the only annoying thing with this build, though if you use WM that generally is not too much of a problem.


I played with Ceto and his build is amazing but very late game he was one shotting himself on physical reflect. I don't think you want his type of DPS in HC because there's no amount of EHP saving you.

Also, I actually prefer warlords mark to enduring cry. While cry gives you easy to rely on charges, qual warlords will give you enough charges to last, big LL and refills your pots twice as fast. If you are paranoid run both together but I think warlords is very underrated.
My garbage (Rampage) - http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1001100
"
Completed 1 ChallengeMoosifer wrote:
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Desbris wrote:
That is nice and efficient, I would recommend Elemental Adaptation for end game, this will really be noticeable as a melee user. Also depending on what weapons you use and if you get any weapons with ele dmg on them lava lash would be a big increase in dps.

Other than that the build does work though it is important to keep those weapons updated, and stacking that life is insanely important.

My Duelist DW build is very similar to this, as will many DW duelist builds be, if they are planning it to be efficient. I do also have EA and lava lash. I am level 67 on Hc ladder right now and I have played with self found gear, not wanting to rely on stash because it would not be a very good test for things like 1 week events or OB. It is quite a difficult build to play because due to the very nature of it you do take a lot of damage all the time once you hit Merciless. But it is a very fast and reaction based build and I like that. I actually decided to do Vaal on merciless at level 57 with 2200 hp and from what I know not many people would do that haha but again wanted to see what was possible and luckily I managed to kill him though I had many close calls. And I am now upto 3K health which is definitely desirable when doing maps.


Overall the build does work, though in terms of dps/survivability it still is not as efficient as the Ranger DW variation as posted by Ceto on the ranger thread. But it is still a good alternative.

Grace, Wrath and Anger work pretty good, and you have the choice of using warlord's mark or Temp chains/enfeeble for certain encounters. Keeping endurance charges always up is the only annoying thing with this build, though if you use WM that generally is not too much of a problem.


I played with Ceto and his build is amazing but very late game he was one shotting himself on physical reflect. I don't think you want his type of DPS in HC because there's no amount of EHP saving you.

Also, I actually prefer warlords mark to enduring cry. While cry gives you easy to rely on charges, qual warlords will give you enough charges to last, big LL and refills your pots twice as fast. If you are paranoid run both together but I think warlords is very underrated.


True, that is the problem with any high dps build in HC I have found. I two shotted myself on my shadow build awhile back.

I also agree on the warlord's mark for endurance charges and in general it is very strong especially as you mentioned the quality version of it. Having to constantly maintain enduring cry is somewhat annoying whereas using something like WM gives it you basically for free :)

Yeah my build is working pretty decent and me and Prozon ran various maps, just before he died that is. Of course the maps we were doing I had to play extremely safe due to mobs doing crazy amounts of damage to me. Me and proz will be generally doing a lot of partying once OB hits, and I was not too keen on playing this build with his extremely annoying summoner mass cold totems build :) It is always difficult to keep track of things as a melee when other party members have massive summoner totem ice spear spamming going off, it is just a cluster of hell on-screen haha. But I doubt this will be the first build I decide to play. It is very enjoyable but it is still a far more riskier build than others out there, as seems to be the case with many melee builds in general.

Oh and grats on finally getting alpha moos, I always find your posts interesting, and I see you been waiting and hoping for access for some time :)
Thanks, time to fix duelists from the ground floor. Already bothering Chris/Qarl with my horseshit lol.
My garbage (Rampage) - http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1001100
"
Completed 1 ChallengeMoosifer wrote:
Thanks, time to fix duelists from the ground floor. Already bothering Chris/Qarl with my horseshit lol.


Yeah see I haven't added anything to the thread you made because you and others have pretty much brought up all the concerns with the class. But it will be very interesting to see if duelist do get any changes, the problem becomes if you make too many changes then the shift is too dramatic, so it is definitely a fine line.
"
Desbris wrote:
Yeah see I haven't added anything to the thread you made because you and others have pretty much brought up all the concerns with the class. But it will be very interesting to see if duelist do get any changes, the problem becomes if you make too many changes then the shift is too dramatic, so it is definitely a fine line.


I want dramatic changes with the same theory that lead them to originally create the class in the first place. I talked about it in my recent thread in the suggestions forum, I always imagine duelist being a video game version of the dude who gives sword lessons in Game of Thrones. A bad ass sword master who doesn't plan on being hit often and can out maneuver you.

The armor and eva makes sense in theory with how the class should be. If that sword master would going into battle he'd wear light armor to keep his mobility but he wouldn't be a fucking psycho and go without any armor at all. He won't be able to take a haymaker hit from someone mara's size without feeling it (hence why armor should be lower than heavy armor) but he does a good job of avoiding those hits in the first place.

That's why I'm suggesting shit like 1h w/o another sword or shield as that's how I imagine these guys in duels. Just working around people, acting more like a fencer rather than a brute.

Most people suggest things that make him into more of a brute which is why the class is so fucked right now. They keep mara images in their head because mara works, duelist doesn't so let's just change them so they fit mara.

With that second paragraph I just thought of a great idea but it wouldn't be too easy and people would be pissed about it. Make heavy armor give negative eva (just like MS, it should prevent you from evading hits as well, also shields should lower your evasion as well. A shield with evasion is such a confusing idea to me) but give hybrid armors higher base eva, allowing duelist users a better chance to avoid. Maybe even lower the base armor.

We were talking in the alpha global about how mara and duelist are kinda fucked up. Mara has the best of everything but duelist has nothing good, just shit that's good with other stuff. I forget who lead me to this point but it seems duelist is the DR class (or intended to be at least) while mara is the life class. It should be the opposite. Mara's charge into battles and just eat the damage no problem, which doesn't cause a stun, doesn't stop them, the arrows just hit their armor and they keep charging forward. Duelist should be the life class as when they are hit (as they are trying not to be) they are knocked back, stunned or slowed down making them vulnerable. You have to bust through mara's defenses to hurt him, while most hits will hurt a duelist. But with how life is set up, life essentially is melee's armor.

Move all this armor shit to mara, take away some of their life, make armor more effective so it's good to stack but you don't need 50k to see a real difference then make armor lower your chance to evade attacks. Take away the armor shit from duelist, give them big life nodes, put more eva also change the scale of eva so hybrid classes can easily get 50% while pure eva users can get 65-75% easier

I think these changes make a clear dividing line between mara and duelist but also makes both a great class to play. Massively different but equally powerful. The only problem is this is a drastic change involving huge tree changes and many gear changes. The other problem is if something drastic isn't done soon duelist will just keep spilling more toward mara because inexperienced users will just advocate for more mara shit to be put on duelist tree while people like me will be lost in the crowd come OB.

Now someone go send this post to Chris or Qarl as I've already bothered them too much lately and I know they don't want to deal with this at this moment trying to get OB good to go.
My garbage (Rampage) - http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1001100
Last edited by Moosifer on December 22, 2012 1:32 PM
Woah, Didn't expect so many replies. Good thing i check my threads once in a while ;) Thanks for everyone for their input.

Yeah, No build is set in stone. I bet there will be enough tree and skill changes in the beginning of OB to require some rethinking, But for now, That's the plan.

Moosifer, I thought you already did 2H duelists? Or did you mean a DW one? 2H always means two-handed rather than two weapons for me.

While it is a bit off topic (and belongs in your thread) - Despite the fact ill always play a dual wielding char (because of my liking of the concept/style in a role playing kinda of way) the premise of a one handed only style for the duelist sounds right on the money. Kudos for the Syrio Forel refernce, too ;)

P.S.: Good, keep shouting about the duelist to anyone who would listen. That way it might actually happen sooner rather than much later. I'd do the same, But you and a few others already say everything i could think of before me, So less point to that.
Playing a dual-wielding swordsman of some kind.
In game name is Kaosu and/or ChaosBlade.

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