Time to Rethink IIR/IIQ?

I've been stacking it like everyone else. I think it's fun. I like the idea that I'm getting more loot than I otherwise would.

But I think stacking these stats are fundamentally going to ruin the itemization in the game in the long run. It's going to force everybody to stack as much IIQ as they can to run maps.

The next patch is reducing the number of items that can get IIQ. That's an okay start, but even Blizzard is changing the way gold/magic find is working in D3. The reason they're doing that is fundamentally right -- players love stacking MF - but it seems to be self-defeating to grind for items that have MF so you can grind for more items that have MF. Items should be about your character and build, not about farming more items.

I propose:

-Keep all uniques with IIQ/IIR. Slightly reduce their IIQ/IIR impact. You can choose to use these items to farm with, but your 'regular' items might be better at farming than these, because you'll be killing monsters faster and more effectively. Drop IIQ/IIR support gems as they make "one spell dump" builds way too "forced" (as in, you should have one main damage spell on your 6L armor, because that is the only efficient way to farm. Using a 6L for anything but IIQ + AOE spell + supports feels awful).

-Purge IIR/IIQ from all items... except maybe rings. Nah, all items besides uniques.

-Rebalance loot drops from monsters and destructibles to accommodate the reduced availability of IIR/IIQ from items.

-Introduce (some/all) of the following systems to give players IIQ/IIR:

*Level Bonus: You receive bonus IIR/IIQ for 5 minutes after freshly leveling. If 5 minutes is too short, have the duration scale with the level. Obviously, a level 90 player deserves a nice little reward for leveling up, could be a two hour duration for a level 90 player.

*No Death Bonus: <Not Enabled in HC> If you do not die for more than 24 hours, you have increased IIR/IIQ. The timer ticks even while logged out. You can speed up the timer's reset by killing monsters.

*Currency item: Possibly introduce a currency item that provides a buff to IIQ/IIR for a limited duration when consumed. -- Or, something really rare like the Mirror, which permanently adds IIQ/IIR to your character when used. Or adds a IIQ/IIR mod to your armor/weapon? To favor builds that kill monsters slower, you could have two kinds of +IIQ/IIR currency items:

Golden Idol: +200% Rarity and +100% Quantity of items dropped for 5 minutes.

Idol of Greed: +1000% Rarity and +400% Quantity of items dropped for the next 10 monsters killed.

...or something like that? It would need some tweaking/testing, but those are the basic ideas.

*Boss Kill Bonus: Killing a boss like Brutus, or a map-boss, briefly incraeses your IIQ/IIR for several minutes.

*Quest Reward: Some quests permanently/temporarily buff you with a small amount of IIQ/IIR when completed? Perhaps these quests are repeatable (if temporary bonus)?

*Level Bonus: For each level after 80, players receive a permanent 2% IIQ and 3% IIR (kinda stealing from the dumb Paragon Level idea).

*No Damage Taken Bonus: If you don't take damage for a while, you receive bonus IIQ/IIR until you take damage.

*Damage Taken Bonus: If you are tanking/absorbing lots of damage constantly, without stopping to breathe much, you receive bonus IIQ/IIR.

*New Map Mods: Introduce some crazier map mods that add lots of IIQ AND IIR to the map.

*New Potion Type: Gold Elixir? Grants you IIQ/IIR for several seconds on use. Works like diamond flask (1 use, slow to farm up).

Any thoughts? Do people like the way IIQ/IIR work currently? Or should we reconsider them, thinking of new ways for them to work?

I just think the current systems for IIQ/IIR are way too passive. Shouldn't we EARN increased loot, rather than obtain it passively by farming? It might be way more fun to obtain a lot of temporary IIQ/IIR than to stack small amount of it passively as we have currently.

I really like those ideas anubite, as far as the currency items. NV turned out to be clumsy and unrewarding, but +quant/+rarity duration buffs from currency? That's in a different ballpark. I like it.

I'd like to see two currency items that have completely different purposes. Say, one that's meant to be used on a boss (lots of +%quant) and another that's meant to be used on a large champion pack (lots of +%qual). Don't need one to just be a more powerful/brief version of the other. The qual orb could last up to 30 minutes for 3 kills only, and the quant orb could last up to 1 minute for the next 10 kills.

But I think we should let this next patch's changes settle in, to see the effect they have.

For those who don't know what I'm talking about, from the .12 limited patch notes:

"

Chris wrote:

Increased Item Rarity and Item Quantity mods can now only spawn on gloves, boots, helmets, rings and amulets.

That means we don't have to worry about quant on our most defensive slots and our most offensive slots anymore. I like it. Although I still think amulets should have IQ/IR removed as well, leaving the IR intrinsic on golden amulets. That too is another very powerful defense/offense slot, and I hate having to throw out a really nice amulet for lack of quant.

I'm still worried about maps forcing players to stack quant.

"

Chris wrote:

Other things we're considering but are not finished yet:

Making maps more common but adjusting whether item quantity on your character affects the drop rate of maps.

I hope they work that one out carefully.

From my point of view, blizztard (sorry.. typo) had a problem with IMF & IGF, because it was included as a mod that when the randomness of mods rolled for an item, it lowered the chances for an item to be viable survival-wise, so that when you wanted to go farming to optimize your build between mobs dead per second vs IMF&IGF, which is silly, and also it was not good for their RMHA.

That said, i think that it should be taken away from items, if it works the same way in PoE, if so, a solution would be to add an additional IIR & IIQ Orb. E:(the orb should not be affected with IIR & IIQ, so that it does not increase the more you have, or maybe just scales a little).

Also i like the idea of adding a bonus of IIR & IIQ, related to a counter of mobs of same or more level killed, which would decrease upon character death, people would try not to die.

"

Vold316 wrote:

Also i like the idea of adding a bonus of IIR & IIQ, related to a counter of mobs of same or more level killed, which would decrease upon character death, people would try not to die.

While this is an interesting idea that warrants further discussion, I strongly dislike any mechanic that even slightly resembles NV.

I think IIQ and IIR should only get you more gear (directly or through currency.) Make that true, and they're good systems. They're affecting progression right now, much more so than any other stat, and it feels bad when picking out gear. Both of the .9.12 changes, if they go through, should alleviate any problems I've got with IIQ and IIR.

"

-- players love stacking MF - but it seems to be self-defeating to grind for items that have MF so you can grind for more items that have MF. Items should be about your character and build, not abotout farming more items.

thats the core. and the only way to solve it, is removing iiq iir from all items. every half solution to this will always be half solution.
rare gear with best iiq and iir is the most wanted stuff in the game. thats bad design. fin.

iiq and iir are no real logical values that can be understand in a "in game logic"-way or a "atmospheric"-way.
there only point is to make the game more addictive in a not fun way and blend out the true content.
"i farm with MF gear to get more MF gear" this shows best the absurdity


+1 for opener.
some good ideas how iiq iir could be introduced (buffs etc) but always keep in mind not to force players to behave in a special way to always get the buffs - make them not too strong.

I'm particularly in favor of repeatable MF buff quests.

As soon as they remove accessibility of content tied to IIQ gear it will be fine in my opinion.

Then it won't be a necessary stat you need to have but just a nice to have stat. Which is fine to me.


Also, I hate any temporary MF buff (like the stupid stupid Nephalem system in D3) with a +50% firy passion, so no, do not want.

I never bother with IIQ or IIR, never have, never will.

If I get it on a good item thats cool, but I'd rather have other stats that help me kill monsters faster.

That's my playstyle so I feel this doesn't affect me.