Evasion Isn't bad - A Revolutionary Breakthrough

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thedestroyerofkids wrote:

OK you are right about armor, I havent played a high armor character since th changes so I will admit my point on that was ill informed.

However, when you get hit by kole as an armor character you are likely to get hit more than once.

As an evasion character IF I get hit at all, I KNOW he is not going to hit again for at least a couple more attacks at which point he is dead anyways and it doesnt really matter. Sometimes I have to stop killing kle for just a second if he hit me once, not because he will kill me but because the explosion of his corpse(the enemies he hangs with usually) is more likely to kill me then, that is what I fear in the kole fight, the effects of his death.

That should say something as to the power of evasion.

it depends on players' hp and armor, could still get 1 shot by him or close enough, then there's map carnage with nasty mods, will defo one shot an evasion char with the right mods. (80-100% damage as ele with or w/o -max res, vuln / chains, 2 bosses, boss dmg, extra dmg) And on the highest level maps, evasion chars will find things like vulnerability, extra dmg with monsters like rhoas / titty bitches / shieldmen / ribbon chargers very deadly if theres a champ pack / damage aura and lots of mobs at once. On my armor / shield tank, its like the perfect mixture of avoidance and mitigation. It mitigates sooooo much damage, and by mitigate i mean actually reduce when it gets through. Evasion characters cant compete in the same way on level 74-77 maps with the nastiest mods.

Since I am only level 55 and didn't do any maps so far this isn't very reliable but I am playing a melee evasion ranger and I am OP as f*** so far... I can jump in the middle of huge screen filling packs and stomp everything, I couldn't do that with my marauder (I used a similar build but I had armor instead of evasion). The biggest pros so far is that I can evade monsters with extra elemental damage (while armor builds will take the whole elemental part) and less criticals (you double roll evasion for crits).

So far my stats are something like this:
55-60% evasion against melee;
95% evasion against projectiles (Ondar's Guile);
30% Dodge;
60% block chance;
20% chance to dodge spells;
30% chance to block spells (Lazhwar);
10.5% life regen/sec;
50-75% cold, lightning and fire resists (depends on my rings and the map I am in)
Something around -30% to -40% chaos resist (this one can kill me rather quickly but chaos damage is easy to avoid).
700 DPS with melee splash and life on hit (my weapon is REALLY bad).

I am using 2 auras (grace and clarity) only but on my final build I am planing to add at least purity, some damage and tempest shield.

I don't know, from my experience any build I made that didn't have IR felt extremely squishy...all is well, I'm in the middle of mobs, and then boom down to 10% of health, panic mode engage.

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jsn006 wrote:

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thedestroyerofkids wrote:

OK you are right about armor, I havent played a high armor character since th changes so I will admit my point on that was ill informed.

However, when you get hit by kole as an armor character you are likely to get hit more than once.

As an evasion character IF I get hit at all, I KNOW he is not going to hit again for at least a couple more attacks at which point he is dead anyways and it doesnt really matter. Sometimes I have to stop killing kle for just a second if he hit me once, not because he will kill me but because the explosion of his corpse(the enemies he hangs with usually) is more likely to kill me then, that is what I fear in the kole fight, the effects of his death.

That should say something as to the power of evasion.

it depends on players' hp and armor, could still get 1 shot by him or close enough, then there's map carnage with nasty mods, will defo one shot an evasion char with the right mods. (80-100% damage as ele with or w/o -max res, vuln / chains, 2 bosses, boss dmg, extra dmg) And on the highest level maps, evasion chars will find things like vulnerability, extra dmg with monsters like rhoas / titty bitches / shieldmen / ribbon chargers very deadly if theres a champ pack / damage aura and lots of mobs at once. On my armor / shield tank, its like the perfect mixture of avoidance and mitigation. It mitigates sooooo much damage, and by mitigate i mean actually reduce when it gets through. Evasion characters cant compete in the same way on level 74-77 maps with the nastiest mods.

I have fought map carnage. It really plays out the exact same way as with kole, but when I run maps I keep end charges up at all times and use my granite of iron skin frequently. If I get hit for a large portion of my life I hit immortal call and recast enduring cry after it wears off.

Evasion characters need that extra defense against those rare "Oh Shit moments" but so does everybody.

In maps with dangerous mods you must be prepared for those big hits, to not do so would be foolish

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thedestroyerofkids wrote:

I have fought map carnage. It really plays out the exact same way as with kole, but when I run maps I keep end charges up at all times and use my granite of iron skin frequently. If I get hit for a large portion of my life I hit immortal call and recast enduring cry after it wears off.

Evasion characters need that extra defense against those rare "Oh Shit moments" but so does everybody.

In maps with dangerous mods you must be prepared for those big hits, to not do so would be foolish

Yeah i fought map carnage, with the nastiest mods. you fought un dmg modded one maybe? His damage when modded like, fx with 90% extra ele dmg and boss dmg is STUPID. it will 1shot an eva char without 70+ life in every slot and as much life nodes as he can take, i guarantee. On an armor tank stacking 50k+, even without endurance charges, the mitigation is ... beautiful to say the least.

Hmmmm, I dont think you get it. Prepared for big hits ofc, but how much can you take when it gets through? vs some crazy pack like i described .... is my point. Was fighting torture chamber ... titty bitches with monster dmg / vuln map and a rare had 50% physi dmg mod ... it still hurt a bit, on a 6000 combined es / hp pool. I can only imagine projectiles hitting on an eva char with much less than that.

Its the reason why there arent 90 lvl hc players with evasion, it would be a silly choice. And why you dont see videos on youtube of evasion characters doing the craziest map content. Oh and ofc im talking about melee.

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Vakirauta wrote:

After seeing the gear you use, I'm confident that Evasion still sucks.

I think it has more to do with melee being in so much more danger than ranged. But that is a different discussion all together.

The beauty of my gear is that aside from the weapons, if I rolled a an archer I could transfer that gear over and it would be awesome.

But I wanna ride this melee thing out for a while longer. See what sort of stuff I can accomplish with better gear.

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Vakirauta wrote:

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thedestroyerofkids wrote:

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Vakirauta wrote:

After seeing the gear you use, I'm confident that Evasion still sucks.

I think it has more to do with melee being in so much more danger than ranged. But that is a different discussion all together.

The beauty of my gear is that aside from the weapons, if I rolled a an archer I could transfer that gear over and it would be awesome.

But I wanna ride this melee thing out for a while longer. See what sort of stuff I can accomplish with better gear.

My reply was not towards you, it was for the OP, with OP gear.

Whats so special about his gear? That looks like crap from a melee perspective.
This is what I have.
If I was using his gear I would not have made it as far as I have.

Really, i dont know how this guy is doing whatever it is hes doing in that gear.
And I think my gear is just barely passable.
Edit. Obviously I have a small amount of armor but what you see on the gear is what the character panel reads. I have no investment in armor whatsoever, this gear just happens to have the stats I need. Through dex and passives I have 6k evasion and at lvl 84 that equals a 40% chance to evade monsters of my lvl, obviously with some variation based on monster accuracy.

Didn't read ever post so i'm not sure if this has been mentioned, but ondar's Guile will give you 100% dodge against all projectiles.
i noticed a post about sparks being a problem.all you need is 50% dodge on melee to get ondar's and you'll have 100% dodge to all spells/ranged attacks.
You can literally stand in a room with 50 sparkers and not get touched once.

main problem with the evasion base characters is the mechanic itself, i mean you cannot put your faith in a thing that mainly based on RNG, you cannot just say "i will be fine, the mob will miss me anyways" what if not, what if you soak the incoming damage twice or three times without getting evaded? i would still go for fix dmg reduction that you can get by using iron reflex even if it's been nerfed and not that afficient anymore.

very simple example:
getting 5 times 1000 physical dmg under 2 sec

evasion base:
you have 10% dmg reduction 40% evade maybe?
let's say you will evade 2 hit from 5.
you end up soaking 3 x 900 dmg = 2700 total dmg.

iron reflex base:
your damage reduction will be 50%
incoming dmg: 5 x 500 dmg = 2500 total dmg.

which one is better? the difference is not that much, but iron reflex is still FIX(mitigating all inc. physical dmg), means you will have this ratio all the time(obviously reduced by leveling up), what if you aren't going to evade anything from that 5 hit? you would get 4500 dmg, that is even soft cap for a good geared life character.

other thing is, you have a chance to evade spells with acrobatic, fair enough, it is obsiously not an option if you are CI based.

i based this on easy logic, haven't tested evasion build in action yet, so this is just my thoughts.

Level 75 Onslaught Acrobatics Ranger checking in. Shit works. You take a hit every once in awhile, but I only lose about 20% of my hp at most. Also, I am functionally immune to reflect.