about y lowering hp =/= es in upcoming patch

When he was talking about Kaoms, he's simply saying HP/ES isn't being balanced AROUND KAOMS. Rather, since ES is typically 20-50% higher than a person with HP in their build then it all factors in correctly. This is a re-balancing for all of the leagues and as noted will not be balanced around A SINGLE UNIQUE that is LIMITED to certain leagues.

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Ziellos wrote:

When he was talking about Kaoms, he's simply saying HP/ES isn't being balanced AROUND KAOMS. Rather, since ES is typically 20-50% higher than a person with HP in their build then it all factors in correctly. This is a re-balancing for all of the leagues and as noted will not be balanced around A SINGLE UNIQUE that is LIMITED to certain leagues.

if u put it that way it makes even less sense to bring up kaoms. ES IS higher because it has cons over hp. u dont regen it unless u dont get hit or take zealots oath, u are very vulnerable to status ailments because it's calculated based on hp not es, u have horrible armor etcetc.

hp vs es was fine as it is in terms of EHP, why do u think GGG nerfed CI so much, then rebuffed it again with infused shield node? (and hp builds were made OP with kaoms which i wasnt factoring in)

but now they're giving hp builds more EHP through reducing both hp n es, but making armor more effective. es builds are getting the short end of the stick simply because they're getting less EHP this way. i dont see why kaoms was even brought into the picture to begin with.

You don't seem to get the point. If you don't use armor, then this is not supposed to help you. If all you use is ES and life, then this should be a net "who cares" to you. Monster damage is nerfed, so is your max life, they were planning on trying to even that out. In reality, this is just a buff to armor.

Well, and a nerf to blood magic and Eldritch battery builds. Also makes it easier to hit the 20% life per second from lifesteal since your max life will go down and phys damage is going up. Long story short though, armor buff.

Why they didn't just change the formula for armor though... Well, I have no idea.

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teebird wrote:

You don't seem to get the point. If you don't use armor, then this is not supposed to help you. If all you use is ES and life, then this should be a net "who cares" to you. Monster damage is nerfed, so is your max life, they were planning on trying to even that out. In reality, this is just a buff to armor.

Well, and a nerf to blood magic and Eldritch battery builds. Also makes it easier to hit the 20% life per second from lifesteal since your max life will go down and phys damage is going up. Long story short though, armor buff.

Why they didn't just change the formula for armor though... Well, I have no idea.

i get the point, and it isnt as simple as i dont use armor, it doesnt help me. i wouldnt mind if that was all it did aka not helping me, but it's a nerf to es builds because buffing armor doesnt help us, and reducing ES affects us in more ways than just reducing monster dmg can make up for.

my point is i'm all for buffing melee and armor, heck i have only 1 ES charc and 5 hp charcs, but what i dont get is why they're altering es in a way that affects so many other factors... it's no longer as simple as a buff for melee and armor, it's a pretty sizeable nerf for es builds, both ci n low life rf builds.

i could be wrong though, they might or might not not reduce ES as much as HP, i dont know that for sure, hopefully they can see why es and hp shouldnt be decreased on a linear basis.

Currently most armor users without kaoms run 5-6k HP and high armor. That gives you a ton more effective HP then 0 armor and 7k ES.

Lower damage from mobs and armor will be even better.

I have no idea what you're saying. Other than Eldritch battery and... And really that's it, how is this a nerf in ANY way AT ALL to any other builds? You'll have less ES, yes, but enemies deal less damage.

If in the old scenario you had 400 ES and enemies did 100 damage, you'd die (assuming CI build) in essentially 4 hits. Now, if you have 300, and they deal 75 (25% nerf to ES and to monster damage) then, same thing, 4 hits. How is that a nerf in anyway? That's essentially what GGG has said they're doing with the patch. Until we see numbers we can't know for sure if they have succeeded.

The intent of the patch, and there's no reason for us to believe they'll fail, is a buff to armor, a not buff (also not nerf) to anyone that doesn't use armor.

Your desperate gasps for keeping the status quo between melee and ranged is silly. They will buff armor but i neglected it because it sucked boo-hoo. ES still will be crazy good with CI. Im gonna try my long awaited shadow with vaal pact, ci and ghost reaver. You can still get 8 k armor with granite flask alone, using no armor at all - and you can use 5 granite flasks as ci.

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teebird wrote:

I have no idea what you're saying. Other than Eldritch battery and... And really that's it, how is this a nerf in ANY way AT ALL to any other builds? You'll have less ES, yes, but enemies deal less damage.

If in the old scenario you had 400 ES and enemies did 100 damage, you'd die (assuming CI build) in essentially 4 hits. Now, if you have 300, and they deal 75 (25% nerf to ES and to monster damage) then, same thing, 4 hits. How is that a nerf in anyway? That's essentially what GGG has said they're doing with the patch. Until we see numbers we can't know for sure if they have succeeded.

The intent of the patch, and there's no reason for us to believe they'll fail, is a buff to armor, a not buff (also not nerf) to anyone that doesn't use armor.

Heard of low life RF builds? which incidentally = the most popular build atm. Reduced ES means lower ES regen which results in not being able to sustain the dmg taken from RF. depending on how much ES is reduced, the lesser geared will probably not be able to use RF anymore, essentially dropping their dps by HALF. that isnt a nerf?

If armor really becomes as important as GGG makes it sound, hybrid chests with ES/armor ES/eva will be the new choice, all the pure ES rares n uniques would lose their value/usefulness. that isnt a nerf?

grace + iron reflexes will become meta, and probably determination too. for ES builds that cant get iron reflexes, or waste a ton of passive points to get there, they'll lose out either way. that isnt a nerf?

i'm not going to comment on your analogy because we have no idea on how much GGG is going to reduce hp/es in relation to monster dmg. what i do know, is that with armor being buffed, hp builds will have same or increased Ehp, while ES builds will have decreased Ehp, unless one takes the effort to swap out all their pure ES gear for hybrid ES gear. easier said than done for those who have already invested tens of exalts and then need to cough out even more to swap gear.

My energy shield builds recently earned the skill Arctic Armour, which was a massive buff to the average ES build.

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lososthefish wrote:

Your desperate gasps for keeping the status quo between melee and ranged is silly. They will buff armor but i neglected it because it sucked boo-hoo. ES still will be crazy good with CI. Im gonna try my long awaited shadow with vaal pact, ci and ghost reaver. You can still get 8 k armor with granite flask alone, using no armor at all - and you can use 5 granite flasks as ci.

if u are unable to understand what i have typed, dont act like u know what i'm talking about :)