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Reflect damage, life leech and Vaal Pact

Greetings,

I have a question for POE mechanics experts. The main question is this: which is applied first when damage is dealt to an enemy with a damage reflection trait, life leech, reflect, or both?

Here's a hypothetical scenario:

I attack an enemy with the reflect damage trait and get 5k damage reflected back at me. If my character had 3k life, this means it would die instantly to reflect. If I was using life leech and leeched back 4k life in that same hit, this would save me from dying except that the 4k life would be leeched back gradually and *after* the reflect had already killed me (or before, either way I die).

If I had the Vaal Pact ability allocated, life would be leeched back instantly, but this would not matter if it was leeched back after the reflect because I would already be dead, and would also not matter if it was leeched back before the reflect was applied because I would still take the reflect afterwards and die.

Is there a formula associated with Vaal Pact that would calculate the total damage to be reflected (or leeched) back to me before applying it?

For example: Damage taken (or gained) = (Reflected damage - Life leeched)

If this were the case, and I got 5k damage reflected back at me, but leeched back 4k in the same hit, the total damage I would take would be 5k-4k (1k), which would leave my 3k life character at 2k life after making the attack instead of being dead.

So when I attack an enemy with reflect damage with a life leech attack, which is applied back to my life first? Reflect, life leech, or both (via an equation similar to the one I described above)?

Thanks
A good question and well stated... I look forward to reading the replies.
sorry I can't help.
Your formula is more or less how life leech with vaal pact works against reflects.
IGN: ElementalApex
Asked Mark about this recently:


"
I'm curious if Leech/Life Gain on Hit can provide a nice measure of defense against reflect.

Hypothetical Scenario:

Player has 3,000 life.
Player deals damage to a reflect monster that reflects 3,000 damage back (after resistances are accounted for).
Player has enough (instant - Vaal Pact/Bloodseeker Claw) life leech/life gain on hit to restore 1,000 HP.

Does the player die or does he walk away with 1,000 HP?



"
Only if the player has higher than 3000 maximum life.

If the player has 3000/3000 life, they hit, gain instant life, which does nothing, then take 3000 damage, killing them.
If the player has 3000/4000 life, they hit, gain instant life, to 4000/4000, then take 3000 damage, leaving them on 1000.
sigwboots_zps25f2d67e

IGN: MonopolyLegend
May the RNG be ever in your favor!
"
Asked Mark about this recently:


"
I'm curious if Leech/Life Gain on Hit can provide a nice measure of defense against reflect

Hypothetical Scenario:

Player has 3,000 life.
Player deals damage to a reflect monster that reflects 3,000 damage back (after resistances are accounted for).
Player has enough (instant - Vaal Pact/Bloodseeker Claw) life leech/life gain on hit to restore 1,000 HP.

Does the player die or does he walk away with 1,000 HP?



"
Only if the player has higher than 3000 maximum life.

If the player has 3000/3000 life, they hit, gain instant life, which does nothing, then take 3000 damage, killing them.
If the player has 3000/4000 life, they hit, gain instant life, to 4000/4000, then take 3000 damage, leaving them on 1000.



Hmm, I guess I was wrong. That sucks. Makes vaal pact a lot less appealing.
IGN: ElementalApex
Thanks for the answers. I guess to summarize then life leech is applied *before* reflect.

"
Agent956 wrote:
Hmm, I guess I was wrong. That sucks. Makes vaal pact a lot less appealing.


I agree, definitely renders my current build irreversibly obsolete in maps and end-game content. I 1-hit myself when I crit and use acrobatics/evasion for defense so there isn't really anything to be done to mitigate it.

Is there such a thing as an acrobatic/evasion build that can do anything except murder itself against reflect? I'm sort of curious.

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