[3.20] 41 million DPS perma-flask Poisonous Concoction | Pathfinder
Permanent Flask Uptime
There is a version of the build this league where we can slam Resolute Technique onto a Sanctified Relic, and reclaim 4 x Skillpoints to use on increased flask duration + defense. Then if we change all flask enchants to be "Reused at the End of This Flask's Effect" (except on Overflowing Chalice which remains Used When Charges Reach Full), we have permanent flask uptime. Just remember to activate flasks at the start of each area to begin the loop!
Thanks to Maydie14 for the tip.
We've hit poison cap for the first time.
This is easily the best version of the build to date. It's using Haste (or Grace), as Malevolence is now unnecessary thanks to an idea from one of the users - Witchfire Brew double Curse which gives level 21 Despair and a massive DPS boost. Defenses now also surpass previous leagues.
- 41.2 million DPS (Poison Cap + Cull)
- 4540 HP, 183k eHP
- 4.5 IAS
- 300% movement speed
- 63.5k Evasion (with Grace)
- 21.5k Armor
- 50% Block + 50% Spell Block
- 100% Spell Suppression
- Chaos res capped
- Ailment Immunity
- Stun Immunity
- 10 Frenzy Charges
- Permanent Flasks
Forbidden Sanctum is tougher on the build in some areas, and benefits it in others. It's initially harder to get DPS up to the level of past leagues, but once there we get a boost - enough so that we hit the poison damage cap for the first time. Due to hitting damage cap, we can reallocate some skill points to defense, giving us our highest eHP value yet as well.
Normal Shaper, Elder, Sirus, Catrina, Cortex, Lycia, Eater of Worlds, Ahuatotli, Kurgalf, Aul, Oshabi, and Uber Elder are all down deathless. Uber Sirus down with one portal left (degen is a killer). Maven down with the usual last phase mess ups. Feared down.
The build deals well with the league mechanic due to the high movement speed, but not as well as proper ranged builds that hit the entire screen, or totem builds that do it all for you while you hide behind walls.
The finalish version for 3.19 has:
- 30 million DPS
- 4550 HP
- 20k Evasion
- 14.5k Armor
- 50% Block + Spell Block
- 100% Spell Suppression
- Chaos res capped
- ailment immunity
= ~140k eHP.
TL;DR - As with most things in 3.19, this build has been butchered by a general smattering of nerfs, some of them unannounced. I'm still working out just how far it can be pushed. It's tougher than last league, but the end result is still worth it if you like the playstyle. It remains snappy, powerful, and durable.
Overall there has been a ~30% loss of power (though with effort it's possible to reach almost the same level as last league). It's still a very solid and fun build to play, but it takes a bit of investment in time and currency to get it to endgame levels. You can see from the itemization this league that I'm pulling out every trick I can (including borrowing Cold Resistance from the Brutal Restraint jewel, Darkray Vector boots for +1 Frenzy and Endurance charges, and adding the Warlord mod Increased Damage per Block Chance to the shield).
It's hard to tell how much I've spent so far, but it's probably around 150 divines to get all the gear required. You can do it for a lot less, and the build doesn't require that level of gear to be strong and viable at endgame.
- 6% Elemental Damage mitigation lost
- the focus mod change hurts Devouring Diadem (around 2 million DPS lost)
- mana reservation and spell suppression nerfs both hit us pretty hard and necessitate gear and tree changes that directly affect DPS
- net result is significantly lower life and DPS (so far)
Gameplay Videos & Boss Kills
These are non-curated videos, and represent the average gameplay experience. I'm not mechanically focused, and rely on a build to do most of the work - it's an ARPG after all. Videos are Ultrawide unless otherwise specified (I am slowly creating 16:9 versions for mobile viewing).
3.20 T16 Alch and Go Grotto Ultrawide (16:9)
3.19 T16 Waste Pool
Drox, Baran, Veritania, Al-Hezmin
Sirus, Elder, Shaper, Uber Elder Ultrawide (16:9)
Uber Atziri down deathless. Pretty trivial as we don't have to worry about reflect.
Uber Sirus down - just. It took to the last portal and I almost died to degen after he died. Degen is a weakness of this build, and so this is a pretty tough fight. First phases are trivial, but the last phase is nasty. No loot (which should never happen IMO).
Uber Shaper not down. This fight is particularly difficult for the build due to all the ground and other types of degen, and the accurate movement required. Our high movespeed actually works against us a bit due to this. The first attempt he was at <5% health. The second attempt was a total wash out. It's a very doable encounter for the build for those who enjoy busy mechanical fights, though.
Uber Elder down pretty easily, despite forgetting to untick Maven witnessing - who kept healing both Shaper and Elder - and activate record (hence no video). It turns out that running around in a panic throwing potions randomly with 36 million DPS destroys everything in the arena.
Maven down also pretty easily. Only the last phase gave me any issue. Died once after messing up the final memory game due to the beams. No loot. Also no video, but will drop one here eventually.
Eater of Worlds is ludicrously easy. Video eventually.
Searing Exarch I will never know, because I hate the fight.
Ubers I will likely never do them all as they are just not fun fights for me. Pretty sure they wouldn't be an issue for someone who enjoys them, though.
Path of Building (PoB)
Here is a record of my build progression this league. The most recent/final version is the last one.
NB: PoB doesn't calculate Plague Bearer DPS, which is at least another 10% single target (and more for clear). The build is probably doing +3-4 million DPS more than shown.
Malevolence is not needed in 3.20 (see Update at the top), but if you do use it the following still applies - Swapping out Malevolence for Haste (thereby picking up an extra skill point as you no longer need one of the 20% Increased Frenzy Charge Duration nodes to cover for the Increased Skill Effect Duration on the Malevolence gem) is an option that trades a bit of DPS for more attack and movement speed, and life. You can swap out the Sulphur flask for a Gold flask for a bit of Magic Find too.
I Recommended the Haste version for general mapping, and it is the version I boss with as well. 250+ movement speed and a 4.5+ attack rate is just too good, even on bosses.
30+ million DPS Avatar of Slaughter version: https://pastebin.com/2FfAR13m
35+ million DPS Quartz Infusion bossing version: https://pastebin.com/rpipt9wp
Note: both versions work for everything in the game. They only differ slightly in their focus. All the gameplay videos were recorded using the Avatar of Slaughter version - which has a slightly faster/snappier feel. If you prefer, you can stick with the Avatar of Slaughter skill tree and simply swap out Inspired Learning for the Brutal Restraint, picking up an extra ~4.5 million single target DPS for bosses (this is what I do).
The boss version uses a very specific Brutal Restraint jewel that gives 4 x 20% Increased Damage with Poison mods instead of an Inspired Learning. I found the jewel using the following (amazing) 3rd party tool that has finally cracked the stupidly obscure Timeless Jewel code: https://github.com/KeshHere/POE-Timeless-Jewel-Finder. I recommend it.
Gear and Gem Links
Note: these are almost best case items, and are a guide only. You don't need things to be this good to play the build. See the PoB's and build explanation for how to adjust according to what you can afford/find.
Special Note - You need the get the "#% Increased Duration of Ailments you inflict while Focused" mod on the helmet. There are several other possible mods, so ensure you search for this particular one.
1. You need to get to 21 AoE radius, or preferably 22 (52%) to make certain all 9 flask charges hit single targets. You can read more about that here.
However, it's difficult to determine what is happening with flask overlap and AoE with PConc, because we are utilizing both GVS (which throws 4 + 1 flasks in parallel), and GMP (which throws 4 or 5 + 1 flasks in a fan configuration). From my own testing it seems that 10 flasks with ~22+ AoE is a sweet spot, and the closer your target is the better.
2. You need to get some added Frenzy charge duration because of the reduced duration on the gloves and boots. The formula for how much you need to prevent the charges ever dropping is:
60% + (10 x #Frenzy Charges)%
That means you need 130% for 7 Frenzy charges, which is covered by +100% from Charge Mastery and 1 minor increased Frenzy duration node in the tree, plus at least one 10%+ increased Frenzy duration implicit on the rings. There are also several +20% duration minor nodes easily accessible in the tree. You may need to select at least one until you can run an Unnatural Instinct jewel, which picks up one of the nodes for free, freeing up a skill point.
2a. If you use corrupted Darkray Vector Dragonscale Boots with the +1 Endurance Charge corruption (recommended), you will need to carefully balance Increased Frenzy Charge Duration nodes to counteract the big Reduced Frenzy Charge Duration the boots have.
Bear in mind that Increased Skill Effect Duration on the Malevolence gem and some tree nodes (Damage Over Time Mastery for example) will increase the duration of the Aspect of the Cat cycle on your Farrul's Fur. The effect of that is to require more Frenzy Charge Duration to prevent the charges dropping. It took me ages to figure out what was happening with this. Benefit from my pain. You're welcome.
3. I'm double stacking Wither via the Alt Poisonous Concoction gem as well as Withering Step, because it's such a massive multiplier to our DPS and the more stacks on mobs the better. Using a totem setup is tedious (as well as consuming 3 sockets, for which the build is starved as we lack one full 6 link due to not wielding a weapon). Of course, a totem setup is always possible if you prefer.
4. Don't forget Herald of Agony (a huge damage boost). Despair on Hit on a ring is now not nearly as good as Temporal Chains on gloves - even with the loss of the extra Frenzy Charge.
5. Dash + Second Wind may seem a bit strange, as the cooldown conflicts with Withering Step. In practice (and you will get used to the timing), it is possible to use Dash toward the end of the cooldown. The build is fast enough on its own, but it's much better to have it than not. Shield Charge is too clunky for me, and feels horrible most of the time. However, it can replace Dash if preferred.
This is not a build guide, it's more of a PSA now that I've managed to push Poisonous Concoction to what I think is a respectable level of power. 3.18 was the first time I played this build. I originally intended to use it to league start and then transition to Tornado Shot, but I liked it so much I stayed with it. The flask theme appeals to me, and it has a very snappy, responsive feel.
The build is a very good all-round performer. It smashes maps, and is particularly effective for Delve and Heist due to the movement speed and narrow layouts of those mechanics. General bossing is also easy. The high DoT damage lets you load up the poison stacks and then concentrate on moving to avoid mechanics. The consistently high movespeed makes it smooth and simple.
The nice defensive layers make up for when you - like me - mess up. As you can see from the videos, the damage is more than enough to deal with all the standard bosses. Ubers are tougher, but still doable - they just rely a bit more on player skill.
The build is simple to play. There are only two or three necessary buttons - right click to throw potions, and another to trigger Plague Bearer/Focus (left-click to move triggers Withering Step automatically). You can also trigger Vaal Grace, Vaal Molten Shell, and/or Vaal Haste if you choose. Flasks are on auto and take care of themselves.
It can do all map mods, though a couple are particularly annoying - low mana/life/ES regen can hurt our ES recovery and send us OOM, and enemies stealing Frenzy charges on hit is really bad. The build still copes, but it's not fun. The good news is we are immune to all reflect.
Intensely juiced map farming (100% Delirium + all other map buffs) is probably out of reach of this build. It can be done, but it's very tough, and not much fun. If you are looking for a Delirium mapper beyond 60-80%, this is probably not the build for you.
A few quick points
The main idea behind this build is that the poison stacks applied by PConc are not hard limited (with one proviso, explained in "3. A Problem" below), so it benefits immensely from Increased Attack Speed and Area of Effect. The more poison stacks you can apply and the faster you can apply them (and the longer they last), the more damage you do. A faster movement speed is also highly desirable. With that in mind, Frenzy charges fit the requirements perfectly, and the build provides as many charges as possible - and as many bonuses from Frenzy charges as possible - while maintaining a decent level of defense.
For each single Frenzy Charge we get:
There are a few moving parts, and I've dropped some explanation of them in the Notes section on the PoB's. I've copied these to a Notes spoiler section at the top of this post.
2. Other Versions
It's important to say this is not my build, though I do think I've managed to push it a little further and in a slightly different direction than others have. I've looked at almost every version of it I could find, taken ideas from them, and made my own tweaks to suit my preferred playstyle. If you want to see those versions, simply do a search in YouTube, and watch for hours.
The other version on these forums (maydie13's Poisonous Concoction AutoFlaskFinder) is about as far as you can push things and is a proper build guide. But bear in mind the itemization is significantly harder. All the items in this version are relatively easy to get.
There is also a really interesting version with full physical damage immunity that has been used this league to farm Ubers almost with impunity. You can see the (3.19) PoB here - and full credit to Majordans. 3.20 updated version here. Note that this version swaps a lot of damage and movement speed for tankiness. Other similar versions also exist, and it's always a trade-off between damage and survivability.
3. A Problem
GGG have a game breaking code issue with DoT's, and have implemented a "temporary" solution that effectively hard caps the amount of damage that poison builds can do. You can read about that in a Reddit post by the author of the other build here.
The TL;DR is that you can never do more than 35.7 million DoT DPS to a single target. This can be increased with Culling (and we do), but it means the hard DPS limit on this build is 41 million and change - unless something else is found to further increase it.
4. Some Variations
One of the tricky things to get right is the balance of flask charge renewal. This matters most on bosses where you are not getting hit enough for the Flagellant's flask prefix to work effectively. Overflowing Chalice helps a lot, and pushing the quality on flasks to 26-28 via the Hillock enchant. Another thing you can do is swap out one Medium Cluster Jewel for a:
You do, however, drop some Chaos resistance.
There are a lot of Increased Flask Effect Duration nodes on the tree also, but pathing to them immediately costs a big price in DPS. If you choose to go that route, it's worth considering investing enough in duration to run a Dying Sun flask, and picking up 3 more projectiles and accompanying AoE. Bear in mind you will need to find 50% total "Flasks applied to you have #% Increased Effect" in order to activate the flask's third extra projectile, which is not easy. It also further reduces your DPS, and necessitates a complete restructuring of your passive tree.
Majordans' build linked above has done both, though if you go that way you will probably have to also choose his itemization to make it all work.
In the end I chose to use a perfectly rolled Overflowing Chalice, put 28 quality and Reduced Charges per Use on all my flasks, and keep both the damage Medium Cluster Jewels. The ~30+ million DPS and high movement speed is just a more comfortable playstyle for me.
5. Further Improvements
I'm sure this build can be pushed further - and part of my reason for posting here is to see if others can do that!
I've spent probably more than 150ex so far, though you can start the build with much less investment than that. The final final version includes a Mageblood (which fits the build's theme perfectly). If I can ever be bothered to farm the currency or cards to acquire one, it would pretty much complete the build - though I would then have to solve the loss of the benefit from the Unique Utility flasks. I'm fairly sure any trade-off would be worth it.
If you try this version of Poisonous Concoction, good luck, and if you find improvements please post them here (many thanks to those who already have)!
Last edited by t0lkien on Mar 19, 2023, 1:04:28 PM
Last bumped on Mar 26, 2023, 9:26:40 AM
Are you sure you have enough power to start determination?
on Jun 28, 2022, 10:35:20 PM
I'm not sure what you mean, but the Unnatural Instinct version (which I've just transitioned to now) runs Determination, Malevolence, Purity of Elements, Defiance Banner, Herald of Agony, and level 1 Clarity - all with 2 mana to spare. It's also chaos capped, finally.
Last edited by t0lkien on Jun 29, 2022, 3:46:27 AM
I saw in the previous Poe that the power was only 131, so I replaced inspired learning with timeless jewel. And I can't open clarity. I think it's because my belt doesn't increase magic value, and my level is only 94. I wonder if I should change the plaster to sovereignty? I used some equipment left by myself to assemble, so I modified some of the equipment, but it hasn't been assembled yet, and the jewelry hasn't been purchased yet. Oh, I almost forgot that I only have level 3 ambient support. Can you check my Poe and give some suggestions?
I use translation software, so I think I may not express clearly in some places. Anyway, thank you for your reply. :D
on Jun 29, 2022, 1:20:26 AM
30mln dps IS SO BIG!
on Jun 29, 2022, 2:49:53 AM
I'm no expert, but here are my suggestions:
Your build looks pretty good, but you are missing a couple of important things.
The first thing you need to do is get the Grants Level 20 Aspect of the Cat Skill on one of your rare items (I can't see it anywhere). I put it on my belt. Without that you are not getting any of the benefit from your Farrul's Fur, which makes Aspect of the Cat free.
The next thing I would say is get your AoE radius from 18 to 21 without the use of a Dying Sun. If your character has ascended (the PoB doesn't show it), then you are exactly 21 only when Dying Sun is active. But the extra projectiles don't help single target, and it will drop while you're fighting bosses anyway. When that happens you will lose the AoE and a lot of damage.
If you look at my PoB you will see I have the 12% AoE craft on my neck, and have 5% AoE implicits on 2 of my jewels. That's an extra 22% AoE.
Also you might want to get Non-Channeling Skills Have -# to Total Mana Cost craft on your rare ring, and possibly pick up a Watcher's Eye with Non-Channeling Skills Have -# to Total Mana Cost While Affected by Clarity mod (that's the only reason to run a Clarity gem). Otherwise I think you might run out of ES and mana, especially on bosses.
Apart from that, try to get your Hit Chance to 100%, and work towards getting the Forbidden Flesh and Forbidden Flame jewels with Avatar of the Slaughter on them. They are actually a huge damage, movement speed, and evasion boost.
Last edited by t0lkien on Jun 29, 2022, 3:23:34 AM
Oh, I have reserved some places for skill range and reducing magic consumption, but I forgot the aspect of the cat on the way to find element resistance. I think I need to readjust my belt or ring. Thank you
on Jun 29, 2022, 4:10:34 AM
Hi i got question, how i can max dps in that build?
Last edited by Jarobot99 on Jun 30, 2022, 7:18:09 AM
Your build and gear look good, but you are lacking a few levels still. You also need to add both Herald of Agony, and Plague Bearer to full DPS calculations (by ticking the "Include in Full DPS" in the Skills section of PoB).
With 3 more levels you can take Dirty Techniques in the tree (and the two minor nodes before it), and 2 more after that you can take Unwaveringly Evil in your Large Cluster Jewel. The final point will activate the last Small Jewel Socket in your Small Cluster Jewel where you can put a damage + life jewel. Then once your Awakened Vicious Projectiles gets to level 5 (it's currently 2), you will have 28+ million DPS. I think the other ~2 million difference between yours and mine is gear related.
However... you are cheating a bit by selecting "9" counts for Poisonous Concoction. You have only 21 AoE, which actually only guarantees 8 flasks overlapping on a single target. You need to get that to 22 to guarantee 9 (see my Note in the OP above).
You might want to try to boost your life and defenses a bit more as you go. You're missing some block on your shield (and the Versatile Combatant notable in the tree), as well as a bit of life. I'd work toward getting to ~5k life.
I had to take Replenishing Remedies in the tree to stop my life flask from running out constantly on bosses. That means I dropped Dirty Techniques. Combined with a ring swap to gain Strength and Chaos Resistance but which lost a +Poison DPS mod, and taking another 9% Spell Suppression, my DPS is back down to 25 million. I'll adjust that up again once I get a Mageblood.
My current PoB is here, if it helps: https://pastebin.com/SRZAYzHZ
Last edited by t0lkien on Jun 30, 2022, 10:36:27 PM
It's the node "Revenge of the Hunted". The number in PoB is the right one so you need to get 9% more
on Jun 30, 2022, 2:33:49 PM