You can have your cake and eat it too: a different approach to solving socket issues - GGG pls read
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I think this is pure genious, that is all I can say, it would add million times more complexity but a billion times for fun.
Good for the beginners and even better for the hardcore theorycrafters trying to find optimal builds on the active skill tree AND passive tree. R.I.P. my beloved P.o.E. Last edited by ampdecay#1924 on Apr 6, 2013, 9:07:44 AM
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Still waiting for someone from GGG to read this :D
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" I agree. Sounds very nice and well thought out. I like the flexibility it would give to experimenting with active skills. It would also make PoE an entirely different game, so I'm not sure if this would be a good idea for PoE per se. Bird lover of Wraeclast
Las estrellas te iluminan - Hoy te sirven de guía Te sientes tan fuerte que piensas - que nadie te puede tocar |
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At 1st I was like: "wtf... this sounds stupid," but you don't get the whole picture till you've come at the end. This seems quite the brilliant idea. The skill tree would allow for way more planned character building and remove the stupid rng socket game you have now.
A lot of the current games potential is ruined by the socket game. You could plan the passive tree to accommodate 6 sockets (in terms of mana pool and regen), but never get to that point because you can't get the gear done. Gear crafting stays intact and in fact you added more variation and planning into it, but not at a scale that a 6 link rune chest would be a "must have" it would be the niche. It should be balanced as such and not be too strong ofc. It would take a huge effort to implement though and a lot of re-balancing is needed for items. 2 handed weapons (swords, staff etc.) are partially balanced because they can have a 6 link. Kaoms would be ridiculously OP (if it is not alrdy). Don't see it done within a year and I doubt they can spend the resources to put time in it, but I do believe this would improve the game a lot. The nay sayers, miss the brains to comprehend what you wrote down. Last edited by Ozgwald#5068 on Apr 7, 2013, 3:30:21 AM
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" Would it really make it that different? Current socket system stays the same, including all gambling orbs. Skill/support gem system stays similar, you will still at max be able to have same number of socketed skills/gems. AND this number will be limited by character class in a similar way that it is now (at lvl 85+ most people will have a 6L). GGG can easily balance their content around this because they will know all players will have access to 3L, 4L or 5L at certain levels and just need to account for those spikes in player power that was also true now, but only for "lucky" players. I would love if you could explain in more detail what you mean by entirely different game. Maybe it will, and I don't see it. |
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using a 5l or 6l should be a matter of having enough mana/ mana regen/ life regen. Something you can build around and towards. So that if you build it, hence sacrifice nodes for it so you can get it. The rng gods should not prohibit the way you can play this game or how viable builds really are, it is far better that rng is that line between great, awesome and godlike in terms of "end game" gear.
That or it is time that certain skills get boosted a lot more so linking them up is a lesser issue? |
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Torin, I appreciate the thought you put into this and it'd be a shame if your idea is buried due to spoiler tags. Please consider updating OP with my editing (starting with your proposal).
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) Introduce runes which grant passive bonuses. Bonuses are applied while runes are placed in gear sockets, and augmented in linked sockets.
Spoiler
Introduce new items into the game, call them runes (I will call them runes from now on for reference), charms, whatever. Put them into 3 categories: red, green, blue. Their bonuses would be similar to D2 charms, as in give a small bonus to certain stats depending on their color. For example one red rune could give +5 to strenght and another kind of red rune +3% fire resistance or +30 to armor and so on.
Let these runes be put into current equipment sockets in same way gems are: by matching rune color with socket color. Then linking these runes gives additional bonuses, lets say 50% bonus for each additional linked rune (exact number of bonuses can be done by GGG professionals and their balance team and of course Alpha testers). An example:
Spoiler
For example lets say you got a 4L armor with 4 red sockets. If you put 2 strength runes (+5 str each) in you don't get +10 strength but +15 , if you put 4 those runes you get +50 to strength (20 base and 150% bonus). But you can also put two +3% fire resistance and two +5 strenght runes and get +25 strenght and +15% fire resistance.
As you can imagine, this system would still have huge value for 5L and 6L items but not make most players pull their hair out when finding an upgrade to their gear but because of active skill/support setups on currently equipped gear not being able to use it. If you want you can also give these runes level and stat requirements and have more valuable but more rare runes. Runes would be drop only items with different rate of drop chance based on their value. Pro: A wider variety of gear will become viable since any specific desired bonus which did not roll as a mod on gear (ex: + resistances) can be obtained through runes.
Spoiler
A major pro to my rune proposal is the ability for players to further customize their gear with missing stats. Lets people not look at each rare item and throw it away if it has no life/move speed/whatever. Lets GGG introduce another crafting orb that works with these runes.
To balance above points reduce max number mods on rare items by 1. This would at same time make Magic items more valuable and regal orb more useful. Best part of this suggestion is that no work would need to be done on current items and the whole socket system currently in effect. 5L or 6L could be left to be of same rarity to find/craft. 2) Introduce a new active skill tree with red, green, and blue nodes in which skill/support gems are placed. Gems can no longer be socketed in gear as this is the function of proposed runes. Current Passive Tree remains functional and unchanged.
Spoiler
<Insert cool photoshopped passive skill tree image changed so it shows what I am writing about> Too bad my photoshop skills suck :(
- Move active skill gems and supports to a new active skill tree. Imagine something similar to current passive tree (but smaller) that has 6 starting positions for 6 classes and it is set up as a circle. Each class starts with two slots of their color next to their portrait (witches 2 blue, shadows 1 blue 1 green and so on) - similar in design to 2 passive tree starting positions you get currently. - These slots would then be connected to other neighbouring slots of different colors and this would continue and expand and all together create a active skill tree of their own (not all slots would be connected to all other neighbouring slots so this tree could also have pathways and highways). - Some of the slots on this tree would give additional bonuses to skill gems or support gems that would be put into them on certain parts of this tree. - Some could even work like keystones, as in give a bigger bonus and some penalty (like fire skill put into it gets +50% bonus damage but receives no bonus from cold or lightning supports or equipment bonuses from other two elements). All inserted skill/support gems would receive xp no matter if you use them or not just like they do now. 3) Character leveling allows the placement of a skill/support gem into an appropriate colored node on the new tree. At level 85 the final gem may be placed, for a maximum of 24 placed gems. This is so to keep balance similar to current system.
Spoiler
1. Players can only put a skill/support gem into a slot if at least one slot that is linked to it has a skill/support gem inserted. Also one of the starting two slots must always have 1 skill/support gem.
2. At certain character levels players can only put a certain number of skill/support gems into this tree. They can put one skill/support gem into it at lvl 1 and an additional one at levels 2,4,6,8,10,13,16,19,22,25,29,33,37,41,45,50,55,60,65,70,75,80, 85 for a total of 24 max skill/support combinations (like now when you got max sockets on all your equipment) 4) A given skill gem will be supported only by any chain of support gems which are linked directly to the skill gem, with no other skill gems inbetween. To keep balance similar to current system, the maximum number of support gems which may support a given skill gem will be restricted by character level: one support at level 10, two supports at level 25, three supports at level 45, four supports at level 70, and five supports at level 85. So how would this work?
Spoiler
Well skills only get a bonus from supports that are linked uninterruptedly by other skills. So if you got skill1-support-support-skill2 both skills get access to bonuses from both supports IF you are lvl 25 or above, if you are lvl 10 to 24 each skill only gets a bonus to support closer to him and if you are lvl 9 or less those supports don't work with connected skills.
- Another example: skill1-support-skill2-skill3-support-support, in this case skill1 and skill2 get one support and skill3 bonus from 2 supports. - Now you would say, "but this will be too strong". No it will not, you cannot choose color of sockets in your class part of tree, tree also branches here and there and not all slots are connected with links. The trick would be to find optimal combinations of socket paths and bonuses gained by putting skills/supports into certain sockets in this tree. You would need to put less useful skills into some slots so get access to paths and slot combinations you want for your skill setup. Now I am not sure how to limit inserting/removing skills/supports from this tree and if it should be limited. Probably not so to not prevent new players from experimenting freely. Pro: An active skill tree encourages experimentation and does away with the artificial skill gem limitations of the current socket system.
Spoiler
New players follow starting paths for active skills and at start use skills most suited for their class. People like some limitations and some guidance at start. They also like to be able to experiment with active skills without artificial limitation that current socket system provides (this in mid or lategame).
Why is all this good? Well in addition to obvious advantages or what I already mentioned, for one it removes RNG from skill/support gem system and makes it character level based. At same time lets players have almost same freedom to combine skills/support as they do now. At the same time it promotes class diversity beyond starting points on passive skill tree (something that was also asked on occasion). At the same time with introduction of runes lets the hardcore loot RNG stay almost as hardcore for end game players looking for that perfect gear but lets us less hardcore (or with less time) or us that like to create many characters and not just take one or two to end game have equal amount of fun without current frustrations. Last edited by Arvesius#5801 on Apr 7, 2013, 4:07:09 PM
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Yes this was written in a more readable way . Except I did NOT say that new gem tree should replace passive skill tree. Both would exist and passive one would not need to be changed at all.
Last edited by Torin#1843 on Apr 7, 2013, 3:51:41 PM
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Ok, fixed. That's a pretty major misunderstanding on my part! I think all points come across now, even if one decided to skip reading the spoilers.
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I'd really like to see this implemented but I'm afraid it's just wishful thinking.
If I may, I'd like to suggest adding multicolored gems too, so all the gems that require more than one stat could be socketed in either color socket. For example ethereal knives could be fitted into green or blue socket, anger into red or blue, etc. Wish the armchair developers would go back to developing armchairs. ◄[www.moddb.com/mods/balancedux]► ◄[www.moddb.com/mods/one-vision1]► Last edited by raics#7540 on Apr 7, 2013, 4:08:48 PM
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