Weapons switching thoughts/questions for PoE 2

I was curious. Is there some revamp to this as well in PoE 2? Weapon switching I mean.

I am into making more creative builds, and I am cool with some of those reaching only something like Tier 3-4 maps if it means I am playing something I enjoy. Some of those involve going for all out for a "weapon master" kind of take.

Recently I made a Beserker. Dual wields axes with chain hook attack, then switch to a 2handed axe (Kaom's Primary Karui Chopper, the one with the rage stats though). It sure is a lot of fun. Especially chain hook which at first I was like "this is a total gimmick" and soon ended up loving its mobility speed and utility for stacking up rage fast. Then off to the two hander with vigilant strikes for some really strong single target hits.

The problem I noticed however is that sometimes (especially when I rush too much?) switching between the weapons is a little bit of a pain. Slightly too soon and the animation does not allow for it to happen and I am still using the "wrong" weapon. At first it was even more annoying, you need to kind of wait to time the change. When the rage also builds up and you are much faster, the process becomes easier as the animation is quicker, allowing for better switching.

This was also my way of making a character with more than 1 primary skill as opposed to the usual.

Seeing that PoE 2 is already aiming at making multiple skill use a thing and a more valid idea (which I can't wait for btw to try out builds with) and seeing that shape shifting also has this fluidity that I wanted in weapons switching, I was curious if there are any tweaks to weapon switching itself as well.

All I am looking for is some better fluidity. For example, pressing a weapon switch could queued to take place after the current animation. Upon that animation ending, the switch takes place, overriding whatever else was "mashed". This could greatly help key press timing and allow for better "margin of error adjustments". It will also result in a perfect weapon switch. As in, pressing it slightly before a skill has ended, or even sooner for that matter, will allow it to switch as soon as the animation is ended at the fastest possible interval.

To add to this, I would say that upon switching weapons, even mid animation, the shortcuts to instantly change to the next set. They can be pressed (in a form of say, holding down right click for a cyclone to be ready to jump straight into it) but will ofc only start the attack and animation once the weapon switching has been done with.

I think its much more intuitive this way. I find myself doing this already with the current system yet if the switch doesnt stick the landing I am sitting there attacking with a different skill and weapon still. Speed wise there is no advantage with the system. If you time it right now its the exact same thing. All this adds is an input mechanic that will make the switch easier/more viable and thus also more enjoyable.

One frustrating situation for example sometimes is being slowed down. At which point the weapons switch timing is changed in that split second before you realise you have been slowed down, and now the fight just went wonky for that one confrontation. A system like this would greatly improve such situations as well.

While we are on this, I would totally love some or several ascendancies (or even key passives on the passive tree) that rely on weapon switching. Giving something like a 4 second buff to some stat upon switching.


Lastly, on a totally different note and subject (since I am touching on thoughts on PoE 2.) I noticed the new lvl up animation. Although I like it for the style, more toned down, and definitely more "exile" like and down to earth. I also am very happy with the current godly beam of light that seemingly breaks the clouds every time we level up :D

I was thinking that there should be a way to integrate both. For example, up to lvl 70 we can have the small animation, a journey of a lone exile making their way through a rough and deadly Wraeclast. 70 to 90 could be a larger effect (like the one we have), indicating that this exile has now reached the point were they stand above every other mortal in the land. Lastly, I would say lvl 90+ to be an even more satisfying effect. Idk, give it a small golden nova as well around you, like you are now not only ascending your abilities, but transcending them :D

Just a thought. I was thinking it would be cool in this way to integrate both feels that each effect creates, whilst not making us feel even at high lvl like a bunch of exiles still struggling for survival. Idk, some umph to visually say "hey, you are now heading into the big boys territory and no longer a wash up on the shore"


edit: forgot to mention. if such a thing as the shortcuts being changed is done when the key is pressed even before an animation ends (and grayed out until the weapon switch finishes and then be available), I would say second weapon switching to also not be available during this interval. Or any other action for that matter. Kind of like giving that single weapon switch priority over everything else and everything else can be activated again once the switch animation is done. This will help with stacking weapon switch onto weapon switch, etc to not make it possible.

Again, the idea is to make the whole process more fluid, and the only thing I can think of that ruins this feel is that pressing a weapon switch slightly timed wrong negates it period, whereas I think it should be in priority before anything else can be done, then the player can continue on with their next skills, etc. Goes without say that movement should not be effected since you can move while weapon switching.

Blame the helicopter build. Weapon swapping used to be spammable, and you could play exactly the build you're describing. Then people found out how to make weapon swapping itself into an attack, and because you could weapon swap hundreds of times per minute by binding it to the mouse wheel you got... well.

This.

"

ARealLifeCaribbeanPirate wrote:

Blame the helicopter build. Weapon swapping used to be spammable, and you could play exactly the build you're describing. Then people found out how to make weapon swapping itself into an attack, and because you could weapon swap hundreds of times per minute by binding it to the mouse wheel you got... well.

This.

lol, hahahaha, Ive never seen that one before xD Looks so stupid silly I cant help but laugh.

But yeah, that wont be possible with what I suggested ;)

You cannot switch weapons until a weapon animation is finished, in which case this automatic stacking wont be possible.

I mention the following:

1) All I am looking for is some better fluidity... pressing a weapon switch could queued to take place after the current animation. Upon that animation ending, the switch takes place, overriding whatever else was "mashed"

As I further explain this overrides actions only in "queued" order and cancels them. The idea is to only be able to press weapon switch slightly before an attack animation ends.

2) upon switching weapons, even mid animation, the shortcuts to instantly change to the next set. They can be pressed (in a form of say, holding down right click for a cyclone to be ready to jump straight into it) but will ofc only start the attack and animation once the weapon switching has been done with.

As in greyed out keys. You can press them as a hold to attack means only to be ready for timing the next attack ONCE the animation has ended.


And lastly, a 1 second counter can also be present between each weapon switch. I dont think I mentioned that, was too much to go through and search again in case I did.


Furthermore, things that can be exploited without our knowledge can simply be changed in the forms of say some skills needing a 1 sec cooldown to be cast after an switch. The result is the same, only better more fluid controls to weapon switch.


I dont think a silly broken build should be the reason or answer to weapon switching being the way it is.


Oh, something else, I did not say weapon switching should be spammable and that is not playing in the way I am describing. I stress this because you missed the point man. The point was key timing. Same as is now, but put a queue mechanic. Instead of me pressing the button a little too soon and it not registering, it having been queued and taken as the next action over anything else.

So, the example you showed me, although funny :P would never be possible with what i am suggesting :)

This is a "fast build"

https://youtu.be/Fm2CU_W7sng

Or how about another "fast summoner"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MEImsLQKbMg&feature=youtu.be

Idk when youd have time or want to weapon swap

Every single end-game high investment build goes pretty much at that speed

Maybe instead of asking for a game-wide change

You should try to change your build

Most builds would never want to weapon swap

As GGG have said - most people who play POE have terrible builds

There has to be good and bad choices

Weapon swapping is bad

Either you make a 1h build and use chain hook as your movement...

Or you use leap slam for 2h...

Or you continue doing what you're doing (which is most likely very slow) and enjoy sacrificing build power and speed to do your niche thing

Weapon switching is gimmicky and will most likely never be promoted in POE

"

This is a "fast build"

https://youtu.be/Fm2CU_W7sng

Or how about another "fast summoner"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MEImsLQKbMg&feature=youtu.be

Idk when youd have time or want to weapon swap

Every single end-game high investment build goes pretty much at that speed

Maybe instead of asking for a game-wide change

You should try to change your build

Most builds would never want to weapon swap

As GGG have said - most people who play POE have terrible builds

There has to be good and bad choices

Weapon swapping is bad

Either you make a 1h build and use chain hook as your movement...

Or you use leap slam for 2h...

Or you continue doing what you're doing (which is most likely very slow) and enjoy sacrificing build power and speed to do your niche thing

Weapon switching is gimmicky and will most likely never be promoted in POE

Then it should be removed. Don’t keep features and functionalities in the game that serve no purpose. We could have a “gem bag” for leveling extra gems if that’s what people want.

"

This is a "fast build"

https://youtu.be/Fm2CU_W7sng

Or how about another "fast summoner"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MEImsLQKbMg&feature=youtu.be

Idk when youd have time or want to weapon swap

Every single end-game high investment build goes pretty much at that speed

Maybe instead of asking for a game-wide change

You should try to change your build

Most builds would never want to weapon swap

As GGG have said - most people who play POE have terrible builds

There has to be good and bad choices

Weapon swapping is bad

Either you make a 1h build and use chain hook as your movement...

Or you use leap slam for 2h...

Or you continue doing what you're doing (which is most likely very slow) and enjoy sacrificing build power and speed to do your niche thing

Weapon switching is gimmicky and will most likely never be promoted in POE

You've missed... well, ALL of the points. Obviously weapon-swapping in combat is a gimmick not a lot of builds would want to take advantage of, but you could have said the same thing about mines one league ago. A mechanic being under-utilized is not the same as a mechanic defining a build as bad.

Also, the heart and soul POE is crafting meme builds and if OP has more fun doing more work to be less efficient, more power to them. Fun is the end goal of playing a videogame, after all, unless you've got something seriously wrong with you like a compulsive disorder etc.

Also also, given that the ONLY reason weapon swaps were put on cooldown was because GGG couldn't think of a better way to fix a few specific game-breaking builds, OP's request that weapon swapping be brought back for people wishing to use weapon swap as it was originally intended to be used is perfectly reasonable.

Everything is a gimmick until its strong.

"fast builds", that is one of the issues with some elements to the game I think. People only run "fast builds" or end game meta builds. Isnt that boring? I mean, at which point does one start to feel they need to try some other things out and enjoy the game?


And therein lies the threads' point. Playing the game to have fun as well. This build I pointed to as an example is my 13th character. Ive done stronger "fast" and "meta" builds. Im good yo, Ive got my share of them. And the only reason those other builds are not at full endgame is cause they need either 100lvl to be maximised or gear I need to grind for. And at 30+ hrs a week already (edit: more like 50+ hrs a week in this season), I grind enough as it is. I have a life too. lol


My request is not to buff such builds to make them viable, the change in the mechanic is clearly an input "fix" to make it less annoying. That is all. I am more than fine with some builds reaching only T10 maps. (Which btw, this gimmick build does just fine at lvl 81 so I am cool with a gimmick working as good as this does.)


Its all about being creative and the fun of it. I enjoy having a "weapon master" archtype with a quick mobility skill and then to switch to a 2 hander that does 80k dps for single targets.


Also, if GGG said "most people that play PoE have terrible builds" then I think its on them and in how intuitive build structures are and how creative one can get. That is not a limitation on the player behalf. You are giving us 100 skills, they are kind of useless if they cannot be maximised into "good builds" and that is a design issue, not a player issue (if its even true).


Terrible builds also compared to what? The 3 main builds to do end game with? Ascendancies alone should give us 19 different ways to go about it. If 15 of them are terrible then its a game flaw, period.

I dont want builds to be easy either. Coming up with one that works is half the fun and more. Some builds will simply by nature not go as far, and that is ok.


Finally, this is all feedback/suggestions with regards to PoE 2. And unless I understood wrong, they themselves have issue with builds being 1 skill and thats it. Hence the whole change to allow us to have multiple six links. The current skill system is not perfect neither as intuitive for more creative and multiple skill builds, and that is why they are changing it from what I gathered.

So, going from those details, and going from the whole new shapeshifting that is added which also adds an ascendancy that adds buffs as you shift, its only logical I think of weapon switching being brought up to the fore front as well as a viable option. Some ascendancy perhaps like I mentioned that gives you those same buffs when weapon switching, etc.

End of the day, my biggest gripe was never the output of said builds, it was the interaction of them. Which, when you get used to it, its ok. but, it could be better. And that was the main point. A more fluid weapon switch control scheme that queues the weapon switch so you dont have to time it right between attacks perfectly. That is all.

TL:DR (because some people I think are completely missing some of the points)

1) Can we make the input for weapon switching more fluent with an "action queue" mechanic that overides mashing. NOT faster weapon switching, NOT instant weapon switching.

2) I dont care if some builds are not end game, I enjoy making more creative builds among the stronger builds. This thread is NOT to BUFF weapon switching, to simply make the input more "user friendly"

3) This is with regards to PoE2, which already takes into consideration A that builds are all 1 skill based and wants to add more options for multiple skills, B has shape-shifting which allows for this mentality already along with an ascendancy that buffs you upon shape-shifting, and it would make total sense if they made weapon switching which is almost arguably the same concept in ways, as fluent and perhaps give it an ascendancy as well that focuses on builds that switch between weapons.

4) More proof that they are already doing something like this is the ranger now having melee weapons, that there is already something along the lines of what I am saying. So it pushes me even further to want to make this whole weapon switching aka "weapon master" archetype a suggestion.


Note Edit: I am suggesting for more mechanics alongside the PoE2 release. Mostly along the lines of better user input. but if they can have more viable builds too, all the better. I am half curious as to why a range of people are not cool with more options in an arpg... Are they just prone to defend why something is not part of the game that they dont care if more things can be added if the devs saw it as suggestions? Just curious...

And the "it was exploited once" is not a good answer. If something is exploited, find a way to make it work, don't make it backwards. Idk, end of the day I'm not losing any sleep. I'll just have to input even more "skill" in trying to find the perfect animation point to switch between weapons and live with the fact that sometimes it has minor delays or speed changes and Im stuck in the wrong weapon before I switch again.... as annoying as it is, whatever, just trying to find ways to make the game even better...