HC Lightning Arrow Marauder, 2 build choices, which is better?

Last edited by Largefarva on March 15, 2013 8:40 PM
Are you starting fresh, or you have gear ready to straight up build the character? If you already have the gear, would you mind posting it?

This is pretty relevant in order to be able to give you a good answer...
Life is tough... but it is tougher if you're stupid.
Will be getting a few hand-me-downs from a buddy, but mostly starting fresh :)
Well then go down the BM/IR route. EB/IF route requires a lot of specific gearing up to be good.

This point is completely useless, take it out:
Spoiler
Blood Drinker - it doesn't work for this build because it only leeches from physical damage inflicted, and you are highly likely going to be dealing 1 (one) physical damage per hit.
Y1te34Y

You will also have a lot of issues with Intelligence. This build grabs merely 74 Intelligence from the passive tree, and you need about 150 Intelligence to be able to run fully leveled gems like Wrath, Summon Skeletons, Enfeeble...
Life is tough... but it is tougher if you're stupid.
Last edited by Killia on March 16, 2013 10:45 PM
Thanks very much for the input! I have one question remaining. I'm still unclear on why everyone says that the base physical damage on your bow doesn't matter. As I understand it, even if you stack weapon elemental damage, this is applied AFTER the LA conversion. So physical damage is converted to lightning, then multiplied by the weapon elemental damage bonus. Judging from the damage formula, it seems to me that base physical damage is the single most important value, as it determines the base value for all multipliers. Is this wrong?
I'm interested in this answer also ... haven't read definitively either way.
"
Largefarva wrote:
I have one question remaining. I'm still unclear on why everyone says that the base physical damage on your bow doesn't matter. As I understand it, even if you stack weapon elemental damage, this is applied AFTER the LA conversion. So physical damage is converted to lightning, then multiplied by the weapon elemental damage bonus. Judging from the damage formula, it seems to me that base physical damage is the single most important value, as it determines the base value for all multipliers. Is this wrong?

Alright then. Lets get our hands dirty!



Look at that bow. It is a piece of garbage, but we will use it to explain the Iron Grip keystone.

Our imaginary character will have +100% elemental damage and 300 Strength for this, and will use Lightning Arrow.

---------------------------

Base damages (no mods!):
14-59 physical
14-29 cold
3-32 lightning

Now LA converts 50% of physical damage into Lightning Damage (no other mods!).
7-29 physical
14-29 cold
10-61 lightning

Now all that damage is affected by +100% elemental.
7-29 physical
28-58 cold
20-122 lightning

---------------------------

Iron Grip increases the physical damage done with projectiles. You have 300 Strength, so that means 150% physical increase.

Base damages with Iron Grip:
35-147
14-29
3-32

Now LA converts 50% of physical damage into Lightning Damage (no other mods!).
17-73 physical
14-29 cold
20-105 lightning

Now all that damage is affected by +100% elemental.
17-73 physical
28-58 cold
40-210 lightning

---------------------------

How much damage will you deal to the monsters?
1 physical -> all the rest got reduced with practically any armour amount the mob had
28-58 cold -> unchanged with or without iron grip

20-122 lightning without iron grip
40-210 lightning with iron grip

---------------------------

So this calculation shows precisely how Iron Grip works. What you have to see now, is that from all the other gear you build up and auras like Wrath and Anger, you will build up several hundreds more of base elemental damages, which will then get multiplied by 100% elemental. Iron Grip will keep adding only 20-88 damage, even if you have 2000 damage from other sources. And at the point where you have that much damage, Iron Grip makes for around 1% of the total DPS. Which makes Iron Grip a bad investment on a standard elementalist build.



So... Where does Iron Grip actually shine?

It shines on builds which rely on the majority of their damage from Converted/Added mods. Builds which use bows like Lioneyes Glare (or equivalent/better rare bows), which do not have flat elemental damage to add in, but have Plenty of physical damage to be converted into elemental. Such a build would utilize a setup like Lightning Arrow (50% physical converted into lightning), Blackgleam Quiver (50% physical converted into fire), Added Fire Damage Support Gem (adds 39% of physical damage as fire damage) and Hatred aura (adds 32% of physical damage as cold damage (Inner Force buffs Hatred from 25% to 32%!)).

In that case, the base physical damage would be converted into elemental at a 1:1.71 ratio, and it would get a major boost from Iron Grip. If you had 100 physical without Iron Grip, it would get converted in 171 elemental damage (and then, elemental % applies!). If you had 100 physical with Iron Grip (say 300 Strength - 300 STR = 150% physical increase), it would first be increased to 250 physical, then converted into 427 elemental damage (and then, elemental % applies!). So Iron Grip would pretty much DOUBLE your DPS with this setup!


---------------------------

I hope this post is easy enough to understand, even though I probably complicated it a bit as it is, and I hope the question you had is answered. If not, please reply with your questions, and I will do my best to clear it all out. If needed, I will make a rather complicated calculation based on a whole set of gear to make it easier to see how Iron Grip works in the bigger picture, on a developed character.
Life is tough... but it is tougher if you're stupid.
Lioneyes Glare is the best bow in the game so far, would be stupid not to get it :P

Even if your elemental build or not.

But the guy is right, Iron grip dose double your DPS with the right setup of items.

With uniques.

NOTE:
This works only with a STR build (300+), if your DEX, dont bother with iron grip.
Last edited by Killia on March 21, 2013 12:11 AM
Very nice explanation, thanks! Before having read that, my target build was this:

Using Lightning Arrow, Chain, etc, and going for Lionseye Glare (at which point I can remove resolute technique) and Blackgleam.
My goal was very high str, life, and ele dmg. My 2 biggest concerns now are that physical damage won't scale up enough, and my low armor will get me killed, despite the huge life pool. Thoughts?
Last edited by Largefarva on March 21, 2013 10:25 PM

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