[3.5] The Tempest Monk - Doryani's Fist Ascendant

The Tempest Monk - Doryani's Fist Ascendant (Betrayal 3.5)

Primary ability is the “Doryani’s Touch/Touch of God”, granted from the unique gloves Doryani’s Fist.
“Permanent” Onslaught, over-leech and stacking damage buffs from the Scion pairing.
Core features of this version are Mind Over Matter (adding to the Phase Acrobatics and leech buffer) and EO/Conductivity to boost output.

It is an amazing looking skill. It is a criminal shame it cannot be used more often/more effectively.

“Have you ever seen the true face of God, Exile?”
Perhaps not. But I am positive its Hand will make a lovely imprint on that jaw.



This is not “my build”. It is just where my turn at it has ended up.
I submit my own attempt for the archives. This was a two-player project to make Doryani’s Fist work. There were oh so many in the past, and will be many others in the future. Maybe an idea or two in here will inspire someone else. (I humbly hope that it does.)

Mad respect to SilverInverse as Saitara, partner in first degree assault insanity, execution, and planning, who stared at the same skill trees and items as I did for hours. He went about the build in a very different way, and pulled together something that runs very well from what I can tell.

From my view: I can’t see Saitara’s screens or feel his gameplay, where it differs or is the same. For the longest time I felt like he had problems surviving where I was able to barely skate by in similar situations. After a final gear swap, I see the dirt more often than I did before. Unfortunate. He, however, now coasts through encounters. I wanted more freedom in my own gearing. (I didn’t exactly end up with that great freedom though.) I also wanted to avoid the reliance on crit/crit-multi to get things done when I felt like points would possibly be coming up very slim. Saitara always looked much faster than my Scion.

Disclaimer Up front: This compiled set of notes or “guide”? It’s long winded. I like to word. I like to word very much. Skip around for your desired info. As for me? (Preamble.)

Spoiler
I love this kind of game and I love the kind of things that are possible in this one. Pick your skill, pick your tree, push it as far as you can. Have fun with it. My experience in “building” characters is in about the range of: “That looks fun! I bet there’s a forum post on that one! Let’s see!”

So when Saitara was like, “This is a really cool ability, let me show you my character punching the ground.” I agreed and carried on my way. But he planted the seed. I kept thinking about it. Days later, I caved. I had to try it for myself. He warned me, over and over, that it really might not work. Either way, it had to be done.

I feel like there are a several dozen of these Doryani's Fist attempts---good ones at that---hanging out in the depths of the internet. In various forms, in various leagues. Over a span of years since the creation of the item itself. Even I tried more than one build in this project. (RIP Elementalist.) For all I know, someone else might have made/tried this EXACT build. At this point we have all beaten a dead horse, Elders, Syndicate, even the Emperor himself into the ground. "Where is your Goddess now, Azmeri?"

With enough luck, and enough currency, I am sure someone out there could take it to the next level. A rich bystander in Standard, perhaps? I honestly feel that would beg the question:
"Why should I spend so much at being average, when I can spend a fraction of this cost and be exquisite?" (Hint: Because it is fun.)

That is indeed the question, Exiles. I do not know many who ever would.
Those that chose to would likely only do so to say that they did.





Pros and Cons
Spoiler
Lots of builds seem to follow the bullet point pros and cons style of format right here.
I cannot, in good faith, submit one without being tongue in cheek about it.

Pros:
  • Style Points
  • Looks Awesome (I used to anyway.)
  • Buffed in 3.5
  • “Dual Curse”
  • Does surprisingly well in high-yellow and red maps.
  • Snowflake
  • It’s “melee”.


Cons:
  • It's “melee”. (You know what I mean, right?)
  • Attack. Speed. So. Slow.
  • Large damage spikes and valleys.
  • Multistrike attack lock.
  • Survivability is on the lean side.
  • Dependent on dodge/evasion.
  • Can't do No Leech/Elemental Reflect.
  • Resistant mobs are a noticeable problem.
  • Faceroll flask bar.
  • Blue white gray flashing messy blob.


Passive Tree / Spec Building Information
Spoiler
Here’s my current and/or final at level 90.

Tempest Monk - Main Website

Path of Building (Full Sim) - https://pastebin.com/uCwg9wVJ

Leveling
Spoiler
I am more comfortable and familiar with the Shadow/Witch/Templar side of the passive tree. I had distinct “milestone moments” and places where I saved skill points.

Low level – Rushed through the mana nodes to Shaper and down to Constitution. Then I branched out through attack speed nodes to Harrier, Hired Killer and Revenge of the Hunted.
There was always something meaningful to take.
Damage was available when lacking, as was survivability.

Level 50 or so. Before saving for Vaal Pact/Duelist nodes.
Spoiler

https://www.pathofexile.com/passive-skill-tree/3.5.2/AAAABAABAAJfA5YFtQhnD6sWvxg8GFYc3CLqJIsmlSj6MHEyATpCOyhBh0WdS1dLeFNSVUtWSF-wYENh4m49b56Cx4MJhMWMNo2_jxqTOprgm7WkDKcIshm3PriTvSe-gMDjwzrKSs961CPYJNi93ajo1uvu8bP56P4K

Kind of the bare bones of the eventual spread. Took Phase Acrobatics last.


There was a HUGE gap in skill point spending between Cruel and Merciless labs. I literally saved up the skill points to rush Vaal Pact and the Duelist life notable as soon as I finished the Merc lab around level 67.

Before the MoM Conversion


Other Build/Spec Guidelines
Spoiler
Ascendancies were taken in this order:
  • Duelist Str/Dex – Passive
  • Slayer – Passive
  • Path of the Duelist – Ranger Dex
  • Passive – Raider

Bandits – Killed every one of them.

Pantheon – As always, your preference. I used Brine King to help combat some slow/stun moments and Tukohama for mitigation.

Leveled with Molten Strike. Slow, but effective with some gem overlap.
(Very glad I had people to play through the story with.)


Necessary Items
Spoiler



Without Doryani's Fist, there is no build. Without the Impresence, there is no mana. You’ll need both, or to choose to run without Conductivity and/or Mind Over Matter.

Helpful but not Critical:


– Carcass Jack adds overall effectiveness to Doryani’s Touch.
Helps counter the reduced area from Concentrated Effect.

– A Stygian Vise as the more jewels you can get, the better.


Gems and Links
Spoiler

Primary Attack:

Inside Doryani’s Fist (The sockets do not have to be linked.)
Elemental Damage with Attacks / Multistrike / Lightning Penetration / Concentrated Effect

Critical Gem Links:

Herald of Thunder / Curse on Hit / Poacher’s Mark
Here you will generate your frenzy charges for Onslaught. This was enough frenzy generation for me so long as I was fighting and could keep fighting.

Cast when Damage Taken / Storm Brand / Blind / Increased Critical Strikes
This procs your EO. I preferred Storm Brand to Orb of Storms, as I felt it stayed with me longer where I needed it and resulted in more consistent EO uptime.

Slot these where you can:

Blasphemy / Conductivity (You earned this curse. Trust me.)
Cast when Damage Taken / Immortal Call / Increased Duration
Shield Charge / Faster Attacks / Fortify
Summon Lightning Golem
Ancestral Protector OR Vaal Ancestral Warchief

With Saitara around for most of the play: His Haste buff is a welcome addition to the mix. With him, I will typically swap to Vaal Ancestral Warchief. Without Haste, I found Ancestral Protector to feel better and smoother.

Spoiler
No Wrath?! Yeah. That’s the big one. I could not reserve so much mana to make MoM effective. I believe Saitara started out originally wearing Wrath and decided that Haste was necessary in the end. There are a dozen ways to potentially drop more damage and speed/survivability onto the build which all appear just out of reach. Going for one sacrifices another, and ultimately the compromise must be made. You have to choose which to settle with, and where the line falls for you as an individual player.


Enough Talk, How's the Damage?
Spoiler
About what you would expect in this case I think. “Not quite enough,” is the short answer.

Below is a screen from my level 88 Scion in a T10 rare map. We have seen how “accurate” tooltips can be. Enjoy with a grain of salt.

(Note: This was the highest I ever noticed my own tooltip damage get at the time. I've seen higher since. (212k in T10.) Mostly a glance after rolling a group of mobs is in the range of 150k-160k as buffs fall off promptly post-combat.)


No earth-shattering going on here. I was buffed with onslaught/my frenzy charges still, my totem, my golem, and was (likely) still leeching and/or Sulphur Flasked.

Standing in Hideout, no buffs, no Herald, one level later, for comparison.




Show Us Your Gear
Spoiler
Can do. Here you go:
Spoiler


Room for improvement on things, to be certain. I spent most of the currency on the buy-in of decent Doryani's, rings, and jewels. Lucked out on a 10C spell shield (Equivalents are 50C or more now from what I can see.) As it is “late” in the season, I was able to scalp a magnificent deal on what I considered a perfect Carcass Jack (5C) and a corrupted lightning Impresence (10C).


Some gear notes and possible improvements.
Spoiler

What makes it better? Additive damage is predictably huge with the 600% effective damage buff. Getting it all to the same element is important. It gives me some grief to see the fire damage on my tooltip, knowing that could be better spent as lightning. Most of my jewels are already “Arcing”/Life on the Abyss side and damage percentage/ASPD/Life on the non-Abyss side. I found it most effective to have mixed jewel types. I could do better with the jewels, but not without a serious additional investment.

I used a 5L Belly of the Beast and a rare amulet with an attack speed corruption for the longest time. I swapped out of them because I was so angry at getting hard stopped by trash mobs with elemental or lightning resistance. I sacrificed a lot of living for much better killing upon finally making that decision. I feel like I currently need about 400-500 more hit points and 200-300 more unreserved mana. That would help mitigate the sudden survivability scares that arrived full force when I switched out of the Belly. The price difference between good rares and great rares is staggering. I cannot yet bring myself to justify it. Nothing will ever solve the reliance on dodge mechanics. Nature of the beast.

The singular unicorn/no limits item in this build would be a lightning Impresence with “You can apply an additional curse.” as the corruption. That frees up 8 skill points wasted well-spent to get Whispers of Doom. Those five-to-eight skill points would automatically translate into one/two jewel sockets and the missing life/evasion nodes from the wheel near Acrobatics. Mechanically, jewel sockets are arguably the most valuable nodes attainable on the passive tree while using Doryani’s. That is a huge potential pool of survivability and damage.

If anyone wants to donate that additional curse lightning Impresence, for science, shoot me a whisper in game.


Some gear improvements since the initial foray:
Spoiler

We're nearing the bitter end of the season, after all. It was about time to start doubling down on a couple characters. (These were by no means currency-friendly.) That Conductivity boost was also very welcome, and the additional life has started whittling away at the survival gap. Good times!


The Cons Breakdown/Doryani's Mega-Rant: (Skippable.)
Spoiler

Oh boy. Where to begin.
Lots of players believe that melee is really not in the greatest state right now. It's manageable, in some cases. If you have huge currency to back your gear, you can do pretty well for yourself. It requires a lot of investment, and a lot of patience to get your items just so where someone with a cast range, projectiles, or minions will laugh from a distance, wondering why it took you so long to walk to the boss which is now already dead. – Yes. Doryani’s can have a huge radius. That can also really help thin weaker packs before they get to you. Bottom line, you will stand shoulder to shoulder with large groups that think you would make a delicious sacrifice at midnight snack.

But if you're walking into a build like this, I assume you know what you're getting into.

The slow attack speed, and I mean REALLY dismal (Doryani problem)---Is exacerbated by the fact that to even have a chance of swinging quickly enough to leech, kill, stick and move---Relies on multistrike (Melee problem). For me, Faster Attacks could not get the job done. With most skills, getting stuck in one spot for a quarter of a second is a lot. If you're rolling all of your buffs and you're STILL stuck for a full second? Prepare for a cozy dirt nap. Also shout out to exploding strongboxes, volatile flameblood, explode-on-death nemesis mobs, and Gravicius himself.

Less strikes = less leech, less mitigation, less damage output, all combined. It hurts.

Too often I found myself needing to move and I could not. Or I would need to recast my golem or my totem and the commands would get lost as I tried to resume attacking... Only to find out that my attack speed buff did not go through in the mess and I would have to try to fully stop swinging and cast them again. This happens regularly, repeatedly, and consistently. This happens whether I am on CA servers or TX servers.

Because damage lows are so low and spikes are so high, you're fighting the RNG by simply existing. Lightning damage has that beautiful spread where the high-end looks pretty on a sheet, and averages are “okay” by comparison. This can be critical if you have a few low end swings in a row and are taking a few high incoming unlucky dodges at the same time... Oof. It ends how you think it will.

Some people hate face-rolling the flask belt. (I don't mind.) But it will annoy some that I use both a health AND mana flask. I also find them absolutely necessary to help mitigate spikes while my leech or dodges can pick up the slack.

Before some more gear swapping and tweaking, mobs with elemental resistance were a flat out slap in the face hard stop. Tanky resistant mobs were almost embarrassing to see whittled away. As stated with the gear selection, I decided the Conductivity was too desirable to pass up at any cost.

Low attack speed, mediocre damage, and self-position-locking combined with necessary buff casts, leeching, modest survivability and flask timers mean you are never likely to feel powerful. You will always have something that needs to be done immediately for your continued killing and survival. Much more than charge into the next pack's vision range and press one button.

Some of these issues are inherently Doryani's Fist problems. Some of them are issues with the state of melee itself in the game. I wonder what was the inside joke in the back room to buff Doryani's damage and then have someone maniacally laugh. “And we'll make it EVEN SLOWER AHAHAHAhahaha!” You can't tell me that's not exactly what happened.

Doryani's simply cannot compete with the full screen obliteration that happens from so many other skills.
I doubt I would fare overly well against Uber Elder. If I were to start punching the Shaper at the wrong moment, I would undoubtedly tank the beam. No way to survive it, save anticipation, and perhaps someone who knows the fight very well. (I've not done it.) Not only is it so slow, it suffers from some of the standard game mechanics which do not shine in the current PoE patch. Melee itself is a bit of an inside joke with the community, I know. Yet the multistrike self-stunlock is extremely painful with an attack so delayed by itself.

One-shots DO happen. A great deal of them could be avoided if I could move.

Spoiler
A final gripe. I used to look VERY cool. That's part of the appeal of Doryani's in my opinion. The huge electric blue glyph on every strike. Adding an Impresence to the final gear really broke that horribly. Every time I run with Maddening Presence on, my Scion turns into a seizure-inducing off-colored white-gray glare on the screen. Hard to see through, hard to look at. Hard to believe I can't yet find a way to turn off that effect.

Anyone know how? Is it possible? Sigh.




In Summary
Spoiler

Doryani’s Fist is just an amazing item. I love that it exists. Props to whomever made the graphic for the strike itself. Detailed, killer, deadly. It looks as powerful as it should.

I really wish I did not feel so punished for trying to push it further. I’m sure this is one of those things where a few points of effectiveness one way or the other renders an item into a FotM every-other-player-will-use. The skill needs more attack speed. More than anything else. I can only wonder where Doryani’s Touch would have ended up if the previous attack speed had stayed. The damage buff undoubtedly helped. More damage is part of the dream, but a distant second compared to speed.

Breaches are one of the points of most entertainment for me. This Scion worked well for them. Really like her in the Delve. Bad luck in Atzoatl “races” though – Just not her bag.
I have unexpected amounts of fun with the character.

T4T
-Ku’Athi

P.S. I really enjoy the cast on crit stuff. The Lancing Steel/Ice Spear Deadeye is my favorite in Betrayal. Thanks for buffing DoTs GGG – That is my go-to playstyle in any game. Next season I’ll head back to my Chaos roots, I think. Maybe I’ll even finally try to recolor a Death’s Oath.
Last edited by Kuathi on Feb 8, 2019, 9:37:20 AM
Last bumped on Feb 7, 2019, 5:53:42 PM
That's some gauntlet in every sense. These two characters were a roller coaster of everything I've experienced with PoE. I'll be posting my own experiences here soon!

(Awesome writeup.)

-Saitara
Thanks for sharing folks, excited to read. I've been playing with Doryani off and on for a year. Still hyped to make it work. 3.5 is a huge step in the right direction.

I think most likely my next attempt (in 3.6) will be a modified repeat of what I attempted in 3.5 -- and that is the stormfire ignite variant. Lemme know if you have any thoughts on it and potentially why you choose your existing setup over it.

Cheers!
Last edited by Gescom on Feb 4, 2019, 10:47:26 PM
Hey there! I did originally try something with the full ignite conversion. Based around a post I saw noting the damage wasn’t bad at all. (The damage was nice actually, and I love DoTs. The idea absolutely had/has appeal imo.) I started as an Elementalist, and if I could swing, things definitely melted... I mostly found I would get stun-locked and unable to attack (.84-.80 attack speed I believe.) before I was mauled to death.

Lost too many games of chicken versus mob packs.

Did you start as an Elementalist too? How do you survive long enough to get your ignites to proliferate? And how do you wrangle the harder bosses? A great deal of my planing for this one went into the attempts to keep the Elementalist ascension from the Scion even. I just decided I was giving up too much reaching for it.

But I really, really wanted it to work.
Last edited by Kuathi on Feb 5, 2019, 5:55:56 PM
I went with Inquisitor. I was specifically avoiding multistrike to avoid being locked for too long. I kind of hate multistrike across the board, even outside of use w doryanis. One punch was generally good enough to kill most everything anyways. I had some decent success with block stacking and recover hp% on block shaped shield. I'm looking towards Trickster and heavy MoM in 3.6 -- Hana Rayn had done an uber elder kill with something like this recently.
Last edited by Gescom on Feb 5, 2019, 1:17:43 PM
"
Completed 38 ChallengesGescom wrote:
I went with Inquisitor. I was specifically avoiding multistrike to avoid being locked for too long.


Can I ask what kind of attack speed you ended up with rolling Inquisitor? Faster Attacks was simply not enough to get the Elementalist through her animation imo. Granted- I also didn’t try to beef up any kind of block rating either.

Mind Over Matter really helped survival with the additional mana leech. I’d be very interested to see how a DoT-based Shadow ends up.
Last edited by Kuathi on Feb 5, 2019, 5:55:02 PM
Not much beyond what inquis offers tbh. Are you equating attack speed directly with survival? Because I think there has to be another way.
With the setup I have right now? Absolutely I would be equating the two. (Should always be leeching, and the faster I get out of that attack lock, the more likely I will be able to move away from attacks which can be avoided.)

I agree, there must be another way. I just can't seem to find it. Maybe that's just the end result of Doryani's Touch- The catch-22. "We do not wish for you to have it all, so you will not have it all." This is also a stance I can believe is in the background with this kind of an item/build.

Greatly appreciate your input. Thank you.
Yeah man.. good chat so far. I'm determined to make it work in 3.6 after falling short twice in the past. I do think the 3.5 changes put it in a better place than ever before where you no longer need to worry about accuracy nor mana management.

My first attempt will be trickster I'm fairly sure. If that doesn't work, I'll probably pivot and go all the way in the other direction with Jugg. I don't like the Slayer angle because I think the "game of chicken" that you describe is likely just way too inconsistent.
Thanks for this awesome rare build Kuathi :) So far I've followed your build with nearly all the same gear, apart from the helmet.... I switched to Devotos as my res was already maxed. I went for expensive speed + lightning dmg jewels and I have to say I'm having no problems with running multistrike NOW, before it was kind of slow tho. I have nearly 4k hp now, but I am really, REALLY enjoying this build, even tho I'm kind of squishy. I've only died twice in the end game so far :D I hope someone will make a new rendition of Doryanis in 3.6. Thanks again! :)

Report Forum Post

Report Account:

Report Type

Additional Info