Things that can or cannot drop maps, anything affecting map drops.

Hey.

So, I only recently found out, that Beyond monsters can never drop maps. I never realized it until now, I figured, it would just be toned down because it would obviously be very strong, if they dropped maps like regular monsters. Investigating further, apparently Rogue Exiles cannot drop maps, either.

I realize, this is a topic brought up very, VERY often in various threads. However, when searching for something like a comprehensive guide with all the information I seek in one place, I found it do be very difficult. If there is such a resource, please point me to it.

Essentially, I want to know exactly, which monsters/chests/objects of any kind can or cannot drop maps, which of these gets bonus levels assigned to them, and which of these can be modified to drop more maps, by stuff like map quantity for example.

I'll just start for now by listing the basic knowledge for map drops in general. Anything I am not sure about, I'll mark accordingly, please help me out, if you know the specifics.

Generic map drops:

Spoiler
mainly come from

- white monsters: capped at current tier of maps
- magic/rare monsters: capped at tier + 1
- map boss: capped at tier + 2

- chests/breakables: assuming the same as white monsters? <-[help]
- strongboxes: same as white monsters?<-[help]
- monsters spawned by strongboxes: same as regular monsters in the map?<-[help]

The tier of dropped maps is affected by your atlas completion bonus, which has a chance for any map to be upgraded by one tier, or a guaranteed upgrade by one tier with the chance to upgrade 2 tiers with a bonus >100%. However, the above caps still apply, a white mob in a t1 map will still only drop t1 maps, even if a bonus >100% would guarantee +1 bonus tier. As a consequence, after reaching >100% bonus, any mobs in t2 maps as well as any magic/rare/boss mobs in t1 maps with will be unable to drop t1 maps. The atlas bonus only affects the tier of the map, not the quantity of map drops.


Boosting map drop rate:
Spoiler
can be done in 2 ways:

- map quantity: Increased item quantity (IIQ) directly affecting the map itself. Does not count any IIQ equipped by the player (Bisco's, Windripper or any other IIQ gear).
- pack size: Anything, that increases the amount of mobs in a map. Except mobs, that cannot drop maps (more on that later)

map drop rate is NOT affected by:
- Increased Item Rarity (IIR) of any kind, be it on the map or equipped by the player.
- adding mobs to the map which cannot drop maps.


Which monsters/objects cannot drop maps?
Spoiler

- Beyond monsters of any kind (white, magic/rare or unique): None of these can drop maps.
- Certain unique monsters appearing in the map, like Rogue Exiles: Apparently these don't drop maps as well. I didn't find conclusive reports on all of these, though. For example, Warbands are usually stated as being able to drop maps, while I didn't find anything on invasion bosses.

* Rogue Exiles: no
* Warbands: yes
* unique monsters spawned by master missions: no

* Invasion bosses: ? <-[help]

Feel free to add any missing ones and help me with the unknowns.

- Monsters in Delves: I did read multiple threads stating, that Delve monsters cannot drop maps, and any occasional map drop within Delves would be from breakables/chests. However, I am pretty sure, I have seen Delve mobs drop maps with no breakable object in sight, just very rarely. Need confirmation. <-[help]




boosting your map drops to the maximum:
Spoiler

- quality/sacrifice fragments: These essentially do the same thing. 1% quality on a map increases map quantity by 1%, a sacrifice fragment by 5%, same as a Chisel on a white map. They affect rarity as well, but as determined earlier, this is irrelevant for map drops. So a map with 20% quantity and 3 sacrifice fragments will have 35% IIQ affecting map drops. With fossils, it is even possible to get maps to 30% quality, for a maximum of 45% IIQ just from quality and fragments.

- map mods/rarity of maps: Every single mod on a map has an attached pack size and IIQ modifier. So the more mods your map has, the more pack size and IIQ it gets. Magic maps have 1-2 modifiers, rare maps can have 3-6, where a good 6 mod map can have about 100% IIQ and 30% pack size.

- corruption: 2 possible outcomes of corrupting a map are beneficial here.
* The map can get 8 mods, which in turn adds more IIQ and pack size
* The map can get unidentified, which by itself adds 30% IIQ when running the map.

- Zana mods:
Spoiler
These can mainly add pack size or IIQ to the map you're running.

* base:
Depending on her level, Zana adds up to 8% IIQ to any map, if you do not run any other Zana mod. This affects map drops.

* Alternate of same tier/shaped/elder:
Modify the base type and/or the tier of the map. No direct effect on the amount of maps dropped, but can alter the maps eligible to drop. For example eldering any map allows it to drop T16 maps, while the base map will never drop a map higher than its own tier +2.

* Onslaught:
20% IIQ affecting map drops. Note, that this only improves IIQ by 12% compared to just using the base Zana8 without any mods.

* Bloodlines:
Converts a set amount (30% ?) of white monsters to blue monsters and gives all blue monsters a Bloodlines mod. Since blue monsters can drop maps 1 tier higher than white monsters, and also drop a lot more items in general, this does improve map drops.

* Ambush:
Adds 3 extra Strongboxes. Since strongboxes themselves and the monsters spawned by Strongboxes can all drop maps, this mod improves map drops as well.

* Beyond:
20% IIQ. Same as Onslaught, only 12% over base. Also, since Beyond mops cannot drop maps, only the IIQ part affects map drops.

* Essence:
Adds 2 rare monsters with a couple of whites. Probably the same map drop rules as regular rare/white monsters? <-[help]

* Nemesis:
Okay, so from what I've gathered, Nemesis is actually a lot worse than Bloodlines when it comes to map drops. Nemesis does have a higher conversion rate for rare mobs (50% I think?), but it does convert blue mobs to yellow mobs or something? And since yellows cannot drop higher maps than blues, and an entire blue pack doesn't drop much less compared to a yellow monster with some whites, Nemesis doesn't help all that much with map drops. <-[help]

* Harbingers:
Afaik, Harbinger mobs can drop maps, so these add quite a bit of pack size affecting map drops. <-[help]


- Sextants:
Spoiler

usually add a bunch of mobs, most of which can drop maps.

good:
Spoiler

* Areas contain additional Monsters with x:
Just adds more regular monsters to the map. Can drop maps, so they will affect map drops.

* 30% increased Magic Pack Size:
Adds more monsters to all blue packs. Best used with Bloodlines mod, obviously. Can drop maps, so will affect map drops.

* Breach:
Even after the nerf to Breach monster drop rates, they are still decent. Only rare monsters and hands will drop maps, but from my experience, that still happens quite often.

* Abyss:
Pretty sure, all Abyss monsters (spawned while travelling and when opening a chasm) and the chests can drop maps. Not sure about Abyssal Depths, I cannot recall ever getting a map from down there.

* Barrels:
Pretty much all of them can drop maps themselves, or add monsters that drop maps.

* Hunted Traitors:
Adds tons of monsters (I think?), that probably can drop maps.

* Added Strongboxes:
Strongboxes and their spawned monsters drop maps. 500% quant is amazing with Monstrous Treasure (more on that later). Corrupted strongboxes might mess up some map drops.


either:

Spoiler
* Unique Bosses are accompanied by Bodyguards. An additional Map drops on Completing Areas:
Strictly for map drops, this is good obviously. A guaranteed map drop on killing the boss, the bodyguards can drop maps as well. Obviously, the value of this sextant mod depends on the map you're running, for lower maps or maps you want to skip the boss, this would be a bad mod.

* Rare Maps contain additional Rare Monsters:
Not sure, does it just add additional monsters? Or does it work the same as the Nemesis mod? <-[help]

* Zana:
Good for leveling her obviously, technically good for more map drops of the same or even higher tier. Maps are not nearly as juiced up, but you can select corrupted rare versions now, which might be worth running just for the returns, I guess.

* unid:
Only good, if you have enough unidentified maps, aka if you corrupt all your maps. If you do, 30% IIQ and 15% pack size is AMAZING. The best common sextant mod by far. If you don't have unid maps, it is bad.


bad:
Spoiler

* Areas contain additional Monsters that Convert when Killed:
Not sure, if they can drop maps, but they usually hardly drop anything at all.

* Masters:
some add monsters, which don't drop maps? <-[help] Might still be worth it, if you're leveling them

* Rogue Exiles/Invasion Bosses:
Cannot drop maps (Invasion ?), low amount of monsters added.

* anything, that doesn't add monsters or affect IIQ.
Some of those are still worth running, but won't affect map drops (like nemesis drop currency, or unique bosses drop corrupted).


- Influence:
Spoiler

Running the map with Shaper or Elder influence can be very beneficial, as it potentially adds a lot of monsters, which usually can drop maps.

Shaper:
Spoiler

* Agents of the Void:
Unique boss monsters randomly appearing on a map, or spawned at the map boss. Seem to have a high chance of dropping maps.

* Constructs:
Adds additional monster packs to the map, can drop maps.

most other mods don't seem to affect map drops, it is possible, that filling the area with shaper balls, shaper randomly appearing and firing balls or buffing/healing the map boss have some hidden buffs to IIQ or something, I do not know. Especially shaper appearing to heal the boss at 50% health seems to make the boss drop more stuff, but that could just be coincidence/me imagining things.<-[help]


Elder:
Spoiler

* Null Portals:
The portals themselves can drop maps, not sure on monsters spawned by them. Sometimes I do have the feeling, they drop maps, but since they could be farmed indefinitely without ever destroying the portal, that would be strange. Maybe just the initial wave standing next to the portal?<-[help]

* Ranged Elder monsters:
Groups of quite dangerous ranged monsters, which can drop maps.

* Tentacle monsters:
Adds slowing tentacle monsters, which can drop maps.

other mods don't add monsters, like the random elder tentacle attacks. Could have hidden propertys, similar to shaper. <-[help]




- Prophecys:
Spoiler

I will mention a couple, that affect the entire map.

* Tempests:
30% IIQ that affects map drops. Very good, obviously. Vaal Winds can be worth running depending on map and build, but it is quite bad in high tier maps, where it destroys most of your map returns.

* Plague of rats/frogs:
Add lots of mobs, which seem to drop quite a bit of currency most of the time. Not sure, if they actually drop maps. <-[help]

* Cursed Choir/Hungering Swarm/others adding more monsters:
No idea, if those drop maps. <-[help]

* Bountiful Traps:
Six strongboxes add a lot more monsters and can drop maps themselves. Good with 500% quant Sextant mod.

* Monstrous Treasure:
Amazing with 500% quant. Spawns tons and tons of monsters with a huge IIQ bonus affecting all their map drop rates. One of the best ways to get returns for high tier maps.


How I run my maps:
Spoiler

This section refers to running a single type of map as much as possible, while minimizing time spent in other maps as well as maximizing map returns, so you never have to run other maps or buy the maps you want to run.

- general rules:
Spoiler

* You want your atlas set up in a way, that the map you are currently running is the only completed map of that tier, and usually no map is completed one tier above. This guarantees, that every single map drop of the same or 1 tier higher is the map you want to run.

* You want as much completion as possible. At least 120%+. Buy the unique maps you don't have. Or buy the completion, especially for maps your character might not be able to do (Shaper, Grandmaster, Vaal Temple).

* The higher the tier of the map you're running, the more you can/need to invest in it. T3 Burials drop like candy, no need to individually trigger prophecys on them or something like that. But if you run T16 UGS, it becomes almost a necessity.

* Always try to keep influence on your map. It is a hassle on occasion, but it is free and powerful. On low tier maps it is comparable to 1.5 to 2 free sextants. On high tiers, it even opens up another source of income in valuable high tier crafting bases.

* Group play is highly beneficial, of course. Aurabots make even T16 maps easy for most builds, group buffs affect map drops, you can run more mf. I mostly play solo, though, so this information mostly applies to solo play.


- low level (burials, arcades,...):
Spoiler

* Run a MF build. No reason not to, the difficulty of low tier maps is a joke for any half-decent build.

* Map returns are not your primary concern here. You can be a little more lenient on atlas completion. Try to get to 100% anyway.

* Chisels are not needed, feel free to skip them. The time you spend chiseling you can just run a couple more maps. Alch all maps.

* Sextants are more a preference than a necessity, you get pretty similar returns with or without them. I like my maps a little more dense, so I use them

* Shape/Elder the map(s) one tier higher adjacent to this map to eliminate it from the map drop pool. Or just complete all the tier+1 maps, you shouldn't even need the additional map drops.

* set up an elder square, fix influence as necessary. The shaper strongholds can be very helpful here by limiting Elder progression, although they are a nuisance to set up properly.

* don't bother with prophecies, sacrifice fragments or Zana mods.

* I like corrupting low tier maps, bricking some doesn't matter, you have more than enough anyway.

* which map you run doesn't matter all that much. Pick one you like to run, or pick one with a good divination card. Burials is the obvious choice here. I personally prefer Arcade with the Saint's Treasure card. Doctors drop every couple hundred maps or something, if you are unlucky, you won't see any for a long time. Saint's Treasure drop every 20 or so maps. After thousands of maps, or if you are very lucky, Burials net you a little more profit. But the difference isn't all that much, and Arcades net you a much more steady stream of income.



- mid level (t8-12, shaped UGS/Burials/Mansion/whatever floats your boat)
Spoiler

* Map returns should still be fairly manageable. Same rules apply, get as much completion as possible, at least 120%

* You probably want to chisel and alch all maps.

* Sextants do get more important. If possible, buy Shaper and Uber Elder completion to get an additional sextant slot.

* Tier 10 maps disable 2 sextant slots, since you want other tier 10 and all tier 11s uncompleted. Unfortunate, probably want to avoid running these.

* set up an elder square, fix influence as necessary. The shaper strongholds can be very helpful here by limiting Elder progression, although they are a nuisance to set up properly.

* don't bother with prophecies, but feel free to use sacrifice fragments as you get them. No need to buy them.

* Use Zana bloodline, or corrupt all maps. I wouldn't do both.

- high level (t15-16, elder UGS)
Spoiler

* high tier maps require high investments. I recommend building up a couple T16 maps and some currency before running them full-time.

* for Elder UGS, you want all guardian maps uncompleted. It is possible to shape a single T10 map and leave all T15 maps uncompleted as well to build up a secondary pool of maps to run. Shaped Belfry, for example.

* You want maximum bonus otherwise, so 150 or 155 depending if you want a single shaped T15.

* You want max Sextant slots. Do or buy your uber elder. Run all maps with 4 good sextants.

* Chisel+alch all maps. Spend a couple chaos to get at least 20+ pack size on each map. You can corrupt, but I don't like that for high tier maps. eUGS bricks to elder UGRiver and elder Ramparts. You can run or sell those. Also buy sacrifice fragments, use 3 for every map.

* Run Zana Bloodlines on almost all maps, even corrupted ones. If the map has beyond, you can use double beyond, but since beyond mobs don't drop maps, it didn't really feel much better compared to just run the beyond map with bloodlines. Regardless, you should save a couple of beyond maps for certain sextant mods.

* Influence is more important than ever. Take the time to set up your elder and eventually shaper strongholds properly.

* Prophecys can get you a long way in map sustain. Buying and constantly re-sealing them is a pain, but it is worth it. I run 3 to 4 prophecys for every map, hoping that at least one of them triggers. Usually a Tempest, Rats and Sea Witches. If there is a way to guarantee a prophecy trigger, please let me know.

* Make use of good sextant mods. Main ones here are 500% quant strongbox monsters, nemesis monsters drop currency, unique monsters drop corrupted.

* nemesis drop currency (red sextant only): Run with a nemesis map and beyond. If possible nemesis + double beyond, but those maps are rare. If you roll a map with nemesis + beyond and you are using red sextants, always keep those maps for the occasion.

* unique drop corrupted: Run with double beyond. Great to get lots of jewellers and divines. Will mess up some map drops, sometimes better used in lower tier maps.

* 500% quant: Use Monstrous Treasure. This is a big one! Yes, Monstrous Treasure is expensive. But oh boy, is it worth it!

MT single-handlely allowed me to fully sustain eUGS solo. Without it, even when using all other means of sustaining maps, I am barely breaking even, sometimes losing maps over time. But every time MT triggers with the sextant in play, I can reliably get 3-5 eUGS out of it.

Use with Zana Beyond, I don't think Bloodlines spawns more magic monsters from strongboxes.

Can use Bountiful Traps as a backup, in case MT doesn't trigger. There used to be a way to force MT to trigger always, but that doesn't seem possible anymore.

* Don't be afraid to invest in the maps. All in all, you end up putting a lot of currency into every single map, even more if Monstrous Treasure is involved. But between high-tier maps, elder/shaper bases, currency drops you make all of that back and more.

* If you cannot fully sustain (if you don't want to bother using Prophecies for example), you should be building up a decent pool of T15 maps when you run out of T16s. You can run those, and get more T16s that way. Also, in Delve, try to look for Citys/Outposts at around depth 270. Monster level starts to become 83 around here, so map chests in Delves start to drop T16 maps.




Lots of information. Did I miss anything important? Also, if you can provide any insight to the marked sections, that would be great :)

Sections I am not sure or I would like some additional information about are marked with <-[help].






Last edited by Snarky85 on Sep 22, 2018, 12:31:14 PM
Last bumped on Sep 22, 2018, 12:34:30 PM
Wow. Awesome work mate.

Im personally annoyed that these things are not documented by the game developer. As an user how on earth am i supposed to know that beyond monsters dont drop maps? Or that biscos does not affect map drops either? I think i found out after 6 months of playtime!

Id love this to become wiki page or something as rules of rng in the game are very obscure.

U r Champion!
Yeah, and considering how tricky map sustain can sometimes be, devs shouldn't let us in the dark like that.
Wait, now that i think about it, maybe the zana mods that have those 20% IQ are there to compensate, meaning the concerned league mobs might not drop any map (would make sense, at least).
PLEASE QUOTE ME IF YOU ARE EXPECTING A REPLY
Last edited by xhul on Sep 20, 2018, 1:52:01 AM
"
saragart wrote:
Wow. Awesome work mate.


Thanks :)

----

If anyone has information, but doesn't want to look for the help flags, my main points of interest for now would be:

- Can Prophecy monsters (Rats, Frogs, fated Sea Witches/Insects) drop maps?
- Can Delve monsters drop maps? If yes, all of them, or just specific ones?
- Can Harbinger mobs drop maps?
- Can Invasion Bosses drop maps?
- Confirmation, that Rogue Exiles cannot, but Warbands can drop maps
- Can monsters spawned by master missions drop maps? If yes, which ones?

Some reports state, only unique monsters spawned by masters cannot drop maps. This would include something like Vorici targets, Vagan himself and his guards, all Catarina spawns, sometimes single beasts from Tora missions. I didn't find anything on regular, non-unique monsters spawned by masters, like Tora beasts, Elreon waves, Vorici guards, Zana corrupted monsters etc.

Basically, is it worth it to trigger a master mission, if he is already lvl 8, just for the chance to add a couple more monsters dropping maps to the map?


Also noticed, I completely forgot Shaper/Elder influence and the mobs spawned by those. Adding those now.
Last edited by Snarky85 on Sep 20, 2018, 2:05:01 AM
Updated a little, added a section on how I usually run my maps. Especially how I sustain elder UGS this league.

Still information missing, feel free to help me :D
Also, if you see something I can optimize with my map sustain (besides running in a group), feel free to point it out.

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