Poe already scraped the infinite dungeon ... hears why

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SirSid wrote:

So in early development GGG had designed a infinite dungeon then decided to scrap the idea in favor of maps . More then one reason factored into this however the main reason is pretty simple . It kills build diversity along with making player expectation around character performance a huge problem .

GGG did have an endless dungeon early - the Maelstrom of Chaos runs. They needed something as a place holder for characters to do, since the game was only 2 acts and four difficulties.

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SirSid wrote:

Map wher the solution to this problem and a great solution it was , however from constant crying on reddit and this forum about map pool sustain , and junkey like players deciding to farm low level content . The map system has morphed into a shitty form of greater rifts already , this dungeon is just a formality at this point and IMO a sigh that the original vision of PoE is dead and never coming back .

The original version of PoE had a lot more challenge and was slower paced. The Delve dungeon may bring some of that back. If it works out and ends up being part of the core game, it will give people more options for how THEY want to play their end game.

More choices means a better game IMO. There have been a lot of people asking for an infinite dungeon over the years. I'm looking forward to this next league.

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poepoe091 wrote:

I would've loved to try to that old Maelstrom or whatever it was called.

Imagine the ledge as a map with no mods, and a big chest with lots of loot as the prize. There were other areas, but everyone rushed past them and just played "ledge" to "ledge" instances. What was fun about the Maelstrom was that it was faster paced at a time when most areas of the game were really slow.

It’s a cool way to measure some e-peen, but I foresee the following issues:

1, which everyone knows, build diversity is an illusion exile
2, it is hardcore
3, farming burial chambers will still be better for loot
4, xp gains are gonna be unbalanced
5, I hate low light in games

I am actually not feeling too hyped for this league

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SirSid wrote:

So in early development GGG had designed a infinite dungeon then decided to scrap the idea in favor of maps . More then one reason factored into this however the main reason is pretty simple . It kills build diversity along with making player expectation around character performance a huge problem .

So why it kills build diversity is pretty straight forward , you will have one goal , maximize loot / EXP for player imput . This become a min/max race and very quickly whare ONE build begins to rule them all . Now some of you may think that this is how POE functions already , and your not wrong . However what a infinite dungeon dose is makes this problem much worst and the sole direction for builds in the game .


The second Problem is player expectation . What happens when your "fun" build can't get anywhere in this dungeon ? You will feel as if you have failed , since it will also be stumped on a map tier and poor at farming bosses . This leads back to the same problem , players will gravitate towards the one build to rule them all .

This is what happens in the greater rift community in diablo 3 , you are limited to how well you do on the leader board based on what build you are running THEN how optimized the build is compared to other identical builds . In PoE however another major problem will be that unlike diablo 3 whare you can farm any gear yoy want relatively easy , in this game you will also be gated off from better gear / more EXP AND currency . Also players will not want to push themself as you might think they would as the risk/reward system will punish them , so they will fall back on speed farm builds to farm the easy part of the dungeon .


Map wher the solution to this problem and a great solution it was , however from constant crying on reddit and this forum about map pool sustain , and junkey like players deciding to farm low level content . The map system has morphed into a shitty form of greater rifts already , this dungeon is just a formality at this point and IMO a sigh that the original vision of PoE is dead and never coming back .

What do you all think ? im going to leave myself open to trying it , perhaps some mechanincs we are not aware of could help deal with some problems , however im very skeptical .

I'm ok for an infinite dungeon, but more favorable of a special loot table for it different of other areas this way players are still forced to do different builds for different purposes and build diversity is less impacted this way.

Except that part i like the idea.

I always find it funny when people like I_NO say stuff like "just play a good build" like it's an achievement to come up with a good build in PoE.

Does it have 5 more multipliers after the main gem?
Can it get more multipliers from gear?(abyss jewels, stat sticks, penetration gear, conversion chaos stacking)
Can it get good mobility?

Well played, you made a good build, hard stuff right there.

To bad a lot of potential builds fail at at least one of those requirements and not by player error or lack of mechanical skill, but lack of mechanical support from the game developers.

Peace,

-Boem-

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SirSid wrote:

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I_NO wrote:

Don't play a shit build

Im sure all the SSF players and new folks will love to hear that condescending elitist horse shit answer

Made my day! ^^

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Synopse wrote:

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Phrazz wrote:

One thing is certain: An "endless" mechanic like this, will distinguish the good from the bad when it comes to builds. The powercreep made the "illusion"(in lack of better words) of build diversity; of course a lot of builds are viable, when the numbers are through the roof. The Delve league will act as a funnel, and we end up with "pushing builds", like D3, where - again - only a handful of builds will be competitive. Everything that's endless will act as a funnel, and only the most powerful will prevail - and we have our self what you guys will refer to as a "Delve META" or "Delve builds".

This is inevitable. And interesting. I think I may like it.

That is pretty much my impression too (and of many others).
Good for you, if you may like it. I probably will not, because that made me quit D3.
Let's hope the best.

theres a delve ladder, to be competitive on it will mean playing a build within a much more narrow scope than normal mapping, thats what happens with infiniate content. Yes sure, and yes its the way with d3 too.


Ok, heres the thing, we already have a ladder in each league. The delve ladder is another ladder, we already have one, the ladder race to lvl100 every league. The entire game up till now, the competitive element is xp racing. In this xp race there is the same limited build diversity to be competitive.

now if I look at your profile, your highest level character is 92. So you have never won the xp race to lvl100 in a league, uve never even hit lvl100. Theres already a ladder, competition, and youve completely failed to ever achieve anything significant in it. but youre still here, why? Same reason I am still here despite me never achieving anything in the ladder xp race, because we dont care. Right?

You dont actually care, I dont care, no one in here manages to compete in the league xp races, no one is significant on the ladder, everyone here is a total trashcan failure, virtually everyone on the forum, from the ppl in rags to the people with mirrors and all the hype, every one of us is a completely garbage can loser who has failed for 5 years solid to achieve anything in terms of ladder. So what have we been doing?

Weve been having fun right? We run some maps, we get some loot, we try and push for xp and we get where we get but we are never actually ladder competitive, were never in the running to be the 1st level 100 in the league. Its never mattered before, we are happy playing the sort of builds we find fun.



why is this any different? Why after 5 years of not playing that 1 build that gets xp the fastest and using it to be the number 1 guy on the ladder are people suddenly upset that theres a situation where if they want to be number 1 guy on a ladder they need to play THE build? Just dont play it, youve never played it before, youve never been that guy before and for 5 years youve just played and had fun, so just keep playing and having fun? Whats the issue?

Its just numbers. I played this diablo season, I had a crusader, I cleared a tier 100 grift, there were guys at the time who had cleared, I dunno, 107? something like that. Whats the difference? Nothing, its just a number, its just turning up the numbers on the mobs life and damage a bit.

Its fun to challenge yourself, challenge your build, carry on enjoying the game you are playing for the experiences you are having. The fun will be about getting 1 more level down, going that bit further than last time, making a new build and seeing how far that can get.

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I_NO wrote:

Don't play a shit build

So glad POE has someone like you help represent them as a long time, well known player / poster on the forums. Not toxic or off putting to new players at all.

Most people in here have good points even if we dont like them they are right and this is how it is now without this but we let it slide for some reason... there are only a handful of builds that are *good* like ive been saying this game is just d3 but with more ways to fuck your build up since d3 doesnt allow you to pick shit nodes that you dont need

Getting gear and upgrades in later levels is really hard so that also slows your build down and the last few node points dont really do that much (tho i would like to have them) trying to get better stats on gear is almost impossible and getting perfect items was never a thing (at least to me i dont think ive had one perfect item... that isnt a unique with easy to get rolls)

I dont give a shit about clear speed so i dont think it really matters how fast the cart goes myself

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Synopse wrote:

The idea will fail since escorts will slow down clear speed.
Actually, escorts are even worse then timers.
An escort forces you to progress at a given speed.
If you are too slow, you fail, and if you want to go faster, you fail either.

GGG knows that and put an one-shot-mechanic to force all players to play the escorts.
This league is another nail in the coffin.

I will skip the league anyway and play standard. Leagues are not my cup of tea. They are just rushing through gated content.

Maybe it's about clear depth and leaderboards rather than clear speed. Who says it's they're to replace maps?