Quick and Easy Questions Volume 4.

1. How to calculate total IIQ / IIR from Map + Gear, possibly including packsize as well?

2. Does it even beneficial to have any IIQ on gear? Considering that maps can easily roll over 100%+ IIQ?

3. Can I avoid armour scaling all together and tank Uber Izaro just fine with something like Enfeeble 160% inc. effect (after 60% Less multiplier, it should still be 0.96% effectiveness) + Lightning Coil + 7 End charges + Fortify + Possibly Arctic Armour. Or I will lack damage this way? Or actually scaling armour is easiest / cheapest way to mutigate his damage?

4. Why a lot of players use Less Duration with EQ while scaling attack speed as well and therefore losing Aftershock? They are ok without aftershock and use it just for More multy?

5. Cheapest Slayer Uber Lab Farmer who can reliably do full key runs? >_<

1. Packsize is a more multiplier on IIQ/IIR

2. It can be beneficial it depends just how many items you want to find, some people run full magic find builds stacking everything they can, I tend to stick to rarity myself as most quantity items give heavy drawbacks.

3. yes armour is trash vs bosses unless you have a large number

5k hit > 3.5 (enfeeble) > 2065 (AA + End charges (41%phys)) > 30% taken as lightning 154 + 1445. I don't remember where fortify goes in the list but thats another 20% so you're easily hitting 60-70% phys mitigation, with pots you'd be able to push it up to 90 no problem.

4. EQ has breakpoints for optimum dps/attack speed basically at 1/2/3/4/5 attacks per aftershock everytime you go past a particular breakpoint your value per point of AS drops rising towards the next break point. Obviously the fewer attacks you do between aftershocks is generally better but attack speed still gives more dps if you don't have much. It also needs taking to make leap slam usable as a movement ability.

5. no idea, 20% cull makes last phase extremely easy but other than that i'd think EQ/Cyclone/Lacerate depending on gear availability. Most of being a uber farmer is about being able to run the mods, characters with high phys resistance can do everything other than conduits. The easiest and most common lab farmers i've seen are Juggs, they are basically phys immune which means they can run almost any layout without problems.

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SunL4D2 wrote:

5. Cheapest Slayer Uber Lab Farmer who can reliably do full key runs? >_<

No idea, but I bet all my orbs that name of the build will contain word Toten.

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Draegnarrr wrote:

1. Packsize is a more multiplier on IIQ/IIR

2. It can be beneficial it depends just how many items you want to find, some people run full magic find builds stacking everything they can, I tend to stick to rarity myself as most quantity items give heavy drawbacks.

3. yes armour is trash vs bosses unless you have a large number

5k hit > 3.5 (enfeeble) > 2065 (AA + End charges (41%phys)) > 30% taken as lightning 154 + 1445. I don't remember where fortify goes in the list but thats another 20% so you're easily hitting 60-70% phys mitigation, with pots you'd be able to push it up to 90 no problem.

4. EQ has breakpoints for optimum dps/attack speed basically at 1/2/3/4/5 attacks per aftershock everytime you go past a particular breakpoint your value per point of AS drops rising towards the next break point. Obviously the fewer attacks you do between aftershocks is generally better but attack speed still gives more dps if you don't have much. It also needs taking to make leap slam usable as a movement ability.

5. no idea, 20% cull makes last phase extremely easy but other than that i'd think EQ/Cyclone/Lacerate depending on gear availability. Most of being a uber farmer is about being able to run the mods, characters with high phys resistance can do everything other than conduits. The easiest and most common lab farmers i've seen are Juggs, they are basically phys immune which means they can run almost any layout without problems.

1. So IIQ / IIR from gear is additive with IIQ / IIR from maps? And then I multiply this values by packsize.

2. I want to find more Div. cards and more rare amulets, rings and belts. :P I am just not sure - I trade off a lot of defense for MF gear :/

3. You fucked up Damage taken order a bit. http://pathofexile.gamepedia.com/Receiving_damage#Order_of_operations
Taken as Lightning comes after Enfeeble and AA is not additive with End charges. AA comes last.

So with this setup I will have.
5000 > 3500 with Enfeeble (Deal ~30% Less assuming 160% effect) > 2450 + 262 Lightning Damage with Lightning Coil (30% as Lightning with 75% L. resistance) > 1764 (7 Endurance charges = 28% reduction) > 1411 Fortify (20% Reduced damage Taken) > 1224 with AA (13% Less Damage Taken) = 1224 physical damage + 262 Lightning Damage.

So I would indeed mutigate up to 75% damage without any Armour. It kinda bothers me that after Damage taken as conversion, End charges, Fortify and Arctic Armour mutigate so little damage, specially AA and Fortify :/

But will this be enough to comfortably do full key runs though? Most farmers I see stack tons of armour.

4. I see but what ratio is the best. This Disfavour Quakers are sure is hitting really fucking fast :o What if I use 1.35 attack speed weapon? Will I lose all Aftershocks with a lot of attack speed on the tree? :/

5. Yeah I know that EQ rocks but what exactly would be defensive setup? :P

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skuadak wrote:

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SunL4D2 wrote:

5. Cheapest Slayer Uber Lab Farmer who can reliably do full key runs? >_<

No idea, but I bet all my orbs that name of the build will contain word Toten.

Totem Slayer doesn't make much sense as entire point of taking Slayer is this sweet regen and ability to just lolnope traps. I need Slayer to forget about traps altogether :/ Any non-Slayer build will have issues running through traps except of lightning speed meme-finders. :/

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Vipermagi wrote:

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SunL4D2 wrote:

I need Slayer to forget about traps altogether :/ Any non-Slayer build will have issues running through traps except of lightning speed meme-finders. :/

There is nothing better at taking zero Trap damage than a Juggernaut stacking Endurance Charges and Armour. Slayers need to hit enemies to maintain their recovery, Juggernauts just need their 20-second ECharges - which come from taking damage, in no small part.

Any character with Lightning Warp or Blink Arrow can just jump over 90% of all Traps. None of my bow characters have issues with traps, be they Deadeye, Raider or Assassin (never made a Pathfinder). ~skill~ lol


By the way, part of the charm of LCoil is that it increases Armour Rating effectiveness. Ignoring Armour means ignoring half the good stuff. Stack Armour!
Also, Enfeeble ends up at 30 * 1.6 * 0.4 = 19.2 -> 19% Less Damage, not 30%.

Traps ignore armour. Slayer can get Endurance Charges as well. Basically except of convinience Juggs have nothing on Slayer when it comes to traps. Also I notice how Jugg's hp jumps up and down when they do Traps often barely coming out alive. So no, thanks. :P

You just pop your Worms flask and then hit huge packs of mobs between traps = basically all what it takes to have permament regen as Slayer.

There is a lot of traps setups that can't be skipped with this movement skills. It takes more time than just by running through them as well. Also some traps have sketchy hitboxes or if you teleport on Font, you can land in bad spot and get yourself into trouble.

But stacking armour seem to be such a pain in the ass! So much points on the Tree and investment into the gear >_< Wait, does it mean that with Enfeeble and LC I will need MUCH Less armour?

Well, rip Enfeeble dream :/

IMO getting IIQ/IIR is only ever worth it if it does not affect your ability to clear quickly AT ALL. There is a reason MF has fallen out of favor, and that your average "wealthy" player is instead playing high clear speed builds for farming (CoC, Vaal Sporks, etc.). Clear speed is effectively a multiplier to quantity also, remember. If you clear 2 maps in 2 minutes with no MF, or 1 map in 2 minutes with MF, you are probably getting more loot by running 2 maps, than 1 with MF. Also, remember only IIQ from map mods affects map drops, not IIQ on gear.

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Vipermagi wrote:

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SunL4D2 wrote:

Traps ignore armour.

Damage over Time is unaffected by Armour - the cleaver and spike traps are not. These deal maybe 400 damage to a decent Juggernaut.

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SunL4D2 wrote:

Slayer can get Endurance Charges as well. Basically except of convinience Juggs have nothing on Slayer when it comes to traps.

Juggernauts get:
1 extra ECharge
Tons more Armour (relevant against some Traps, very relevant against Izaro and Argus)
Higher Regen (but lower Leech)
Increased Fort Effect (can trigger off aurasticks, generally not active during Traps)

Slayers get... Leech. Yeah, Slayers are so much better against Traps than Juggernauts, huh. Just infinitely stronger. Hoo boy.

They're both perfectly fine options. Don't be blind.

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SunL4D2 wrote:

Also I notice how Jugg's hp jumps up and down when they do Traps often barely coming out alive.

If they're fucking terrible? Juggernauts take barely any Damage from Traps; 9 ECharges plus Soul of Steel = 40% Physical Damage Reduction, stacked with Regen. I can run through the middle of a roomba and not notice.

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SunL4D2 wrote:

Wait, does it mean that with Enfeeble and LC I will need MUCH Less armour?

To reach the same amount of %PDR as without Enfeeble/Lightning Coil? Yes. That is what I said.

The Cleaver and Spike traps are mostly irrelevant as they deal little damage and it's not continous.

Let's be real - I won't get regen/inc Fortify node, because there is mov. speed / no slowdown and stun immunity double armour nodes, so you might as well not mention it. Double armour is only matter against Izaro for aforementioned reasons (Spike traps just don't deal a lot of damage and darts are kind of comparably rare and not so rippy). This moving hellish traps is what I need to take care of, specially if they are buffed by this pesky damage font. :o 1 End. charge is pretty sweet. I just wanna to actually lolnope any long ass rippy chain of traps buffed by damage fonts and it's just impossible for Jugg as you will still have to watch out for your hp and flasks.

Slayer get extra 35-38+% Life regen per second. Against 1 Endurance charge and convineince from Jugg. It's about traps - not talking about Izaro - double armour from chest is great for him. 20% cull and 20% More damage is great too though.

By going up and down, I mean hp lowering to 40% and below here and there. No, they just want to run through traps asap without care in the World. For 9 end charges, you gotta sacrifice stats on belt if you don't want to waste too much currencie or ring for Kaom's. :/ Did you grab regen nodes that are out of the way? Because if you don't you gonna get like 5-6% regen which is not really a lot. But with 8 end charges. It was GucciPradas and he is one of the best HC runners.

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Docbp87 wrote:

IMO getting IIQ/IIR is only ever worth it if it does not affect your ability to clear quickly AT ALL. There is a reason MF has fallen out of favor, and that your average "wealthy" player is instead playing high clear speed builds for farming (CoC, Vaal Sporks, etc.). Clear speed is effectively a multiplier to quantity also, remember. If you clear 2 maps in 2 minutes with no MF, or 1 map in 2 minutes with MF, you are probably getting more loot by running 2 maps, than 1 with MF. Also, remember only IIQ from map mods affects map drops, not IIQ on gear.

I just really love MF thingy :/

Well it takes at least 7-10 minutes to clear this map for me and I waste so much time sorting inventory and just doing other stuff >_<

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SunL4D2 wrote:

And Slayer get extra 35-38+% Life regen per second. Not to mention you are immunte to Bleeding while running through traps with Endless Hunger. Against 1 Endurance charge and convineince from Jugg. It's about traps - not talking about Izaro - double armour from chest is great for him.

And how do you get that Recovery (not Regeneration) when there are no monsters around to Leech from? Sentinels don't have nearly enough Life on them to sustain 35% recovery for more than a second or so...

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By going up and down, I mean hp lowering to 40% and below here and there.

I can't help but echo Vipermagi here. The hell kinda janky noob-ass Juggernauts YOU been watching? My Juggernaut wears a frickin Abyssus and he STILL never drops to hp levels that low.

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No, they just want to run through traps asap. For 9 end charges, you gotta sacrifice stats on belt if you don't want to waste too much currencie or ring for Kaom's. :/ Did you grab regen nodes that are out of the way? Because if you don't you gonna get like 5-6% regen which is not really a lot. But with 8 end charges. It was GucciPradas and he is one of the best HC runners.

Just so you know, you don't have to sacrifice jack shit to get 39% flat PDR as Juggernaut. 3 ECs from tree, 1 from bandit, 1 from ascendancy, Soul of Steel +4%, and Chaos Golem +3%. Marauder is in prime position to take advantage of ECs, especially if you spec for melee... this is the setup that I use, with higher damage than a lot of my other builds.

EDIT: I was a bit rude in this part in my original post. Let's see if I can phrase it in a more amicable way.

Path of Exile is a game that encourages theorycraft, but 100% the most reliable way to gain value information is to actually test it in game. If you're an optimiser, it will be a huge obstacle for you if you refuse to consider other options just because your paper/napkin calcs say otherwise.

Obviously, if you're not an optimiser and your attachment to Slayer were more for, say, "I love the Duelist's lines!", then all the power to you to look for the cheapest Lab running Slayer. But when you refuse other options the way you have in this thread, when generally asking for greater optimisation... it's just a really confusing reaction from you.