Dual Strike question

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Aiyana wrote:

My character panel says:

Default Attack: 68.8 dps
Dual Strike: 71.1 dps
Attacks per second is the same on both


Dual Strike says: "Attacks with both weapons"

So shouldn't the dps be like 2 times the dps of the "Default Attack"?

The only explanation i see would be that dual strike deals 50% less damage instead of only 10%

In my opinion either the skill description or the damage calculation is wrong.

As explained in the skill thread for dual strike (and quoted here), the DPS calculation for this skill is wrong because it doesn't know the skill will hit with both weapons, and calculates as though it was alternating between the two.

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zfky09 wrote:

I believe it deals 40% less damage when dual wielding (which is a prerequisite for the ability) and its not mentioned on the description. its the case with cleave but cleave states that there is a 40% dmg reduction from using 2 weapons in the description.

That is not the case. Dual Strike's damage penalty is listed on the skill, and is not specifically a "while dual wielding" penalty like cleave, it's just a straight penalty. Also, it's 10% less damage, not 40% reduced damage like cleave.

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Azhubham wrote:

10% less damage.. is considered to be a multiplicative decrease. But how does it apply?
It certainly isn't just basedamage*0.9

Yes, it really is just reducing the damage by one tenth. That's what 10% less damage does.
Malice's thread is misleading on some points and simply wrong on others in terms of modifiers. I have posted in his thread to advise him of actual functionality so the thread can be made accurate.

Since some people are confused, additive stacking means that modifiers are added together and applied as one.
For example, a bonus of "20% increased damage" and another bonus of "10% increased damage" add together an increase damage by 30%.
Multiplicative stacking means each % modifier apples separately - so "20% more damage" and "10% more damage" result in 22% overall damage increase.

Not that because "% increased damage" modifiers on weapons apply to the base damage of the weapon, which everything else modifies, they will not add with other "increased damage" modifiers which apply to the weapon damage.

DPS calculation is only ever done for the character panel. The values used by the skill when you hit things never calculate DPS, because there would be no point to them doing so - they just calculate the damage for the hit, and they work correctly -dual strike calculates damage once for each weapon, then adds them together.

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FaceLicker wrote:

Mark.. you're still confusing me.

For the weapons on the previous page, take the Ghost Foil with 50% Increased Physical Damage. And take the 18% Increased Physical Damage from Dual Strike.

You're saying that it is not additive in the sense that 50 + 18 = 68% Increased Physical Damage. Instead, the 50% is applied first and then the 18% on top of that?

Yes, because one is affecting the base damage of the weapon (which is shown in blue to show it has been modified), and one is a modifier to the damage dealt by the skill, which starts from the total base damage of the weapon, and modifies it from there.

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FaceLicker wrote:

If the 18% is additive.. what stacks with it? Passives? Armor/Acessory mods?

Anything that says "X% increased [insert optional qualifier here] damage" other than the base damage increase on the weapon, be it from passives, support gems, mods on other items, etc. any of those which apply to the skill's damage and are "% increased" (or "% reduced") modifiers stack additively together. Any which are "% more" (or less) will not stack additively.

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FaceLicker wrote:

Ok so.. judging from what Mark said.. the Actual DPS is different than what I did at first. I think I know where I screwed up.

The Ghost foil would have a Dual Strike DPS of..

[(((13to30*1.5)*1.18)/2)*1.4]*.9 = 53.2 DPS

Gilded Foil
[((12to47*1.18)/2)*1.4]*.9 = 48.7 DPS

Add both together and you have 102 Average DPS which should be the true value and not what the character screen says..
The default attack in this case would be 43 Average DPS since the weapons alternate at varying speeds.

I'm probably missing something obvious, but where are the 1.4 terms coming from there? I would have expected 1.35 and 1.20 (the number of attacks per second) to be used.

Ah, right. Yes, dual wielding grants 10% increased attack speed, and yes in general attacks made while dual wielding will use the attack speed of the weapon used for that hit. As for what dual strike does, I honestly don't know off the top of my head, I'll go take a look when I have some time.

It was averaging attack speed increases of the two weapons, but using the base attack duration of only one of them (alternating each time like a regular dual-wielding attack). I will adjust this so that it takes the average duration as well, the change should make it into 0.9.6

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faerwin wrote:

I,m wondering why this isn't working with wands? Limitation or intended restriction?

We can't currently support firing two wand projectiles at the same target together, my understanding is that dual strike with wands something we'd like to support in future if possible, but not high-priority.