Blade Vortex 2.5 Dead or not? [Calculations] [Explanations] [Thoughts]
|
After patch 2.5.0 Blade Vortex was refactored in terms how it deals damage. Why did GGG make it? My thoughts are: this is about optimisation. To let it be clear, i will talk a little about flask on crit mechanics, but this thread actually not about that. All the information in there is based mostly on my thoughts and of course on pathofexile.gamepedia.com and www.pathofexile.com .
"
Optimisation. Why refactored?
So, to understand reasons about refactoring, we need to compare BVb and BVa. BVb worked like that: You spin the blades, each lasts 5 seconds and each of them does independent damage to all targets it touch every 1 second. This means that amount of damage (ranges), crit/non-crit will be calculated for each blade spinned. And now imagine: 20 blades hit target. Each second there would be 20 calculations (1 for each blade). Now let's talk about BVa. How it works: You spin the blades, each lasts 5 seconds. There is only one blade dealing damage. Every new blade increase base damage of BV and frequency (not shown in tooltip DPS) of hits. What about how it works on performance? Maximum stacks is 20. This means 200% increase frequency of hits -> it will be one hit every 200 ms instead of 600 ms. In the end we will have 5 hits every 1s (max 20 stacks). There we have BVb 20 hits every second vs BVa 5 hits every second. Of course BVa will be better for optimisation since less calculations.
SRS comparison
Don't forget that in the same 2.5.0 patch GGG also reduced maximum number of summoned SRS to 20 but increased their damage/hp... whatever. Why? 50 vs 20 = 20 is x2.5 less calculations = is better for optimisation.
P.S.: before 2.5.0: I think these people who played in party with SRS based builds knows how hard is it damn lagging. That's all about optimisation is obviously my thoughts. Since i have education in optimisation and PC technologies.
Calculations. BV Dead?
Google spreadshit with formulas and graph
Before i will show you how to calculate damage i will say you one thing: BVa is better than BVb after reaching different amount of stacks. First of all, part of 2.5.0 patch notes: " The above shows you mechanic of skill. Let it be clear, base damage is reduced by 30% at all levels and each stack of blade will increase its damage by 30%. It means that there is NO mechanic like ...will increase its damage by 30% after first (meaning 1st blade not in count since this is base). I will explain it in calculations. Now let's calculate damage. We have: BVb average base damage = 100. No crit. Each blade hits every 1 second always. The calculation of BVb is easy: 100 damage every 1 second per 1 active blade. 200 dps per 2 blades... 2000 dps per 20 blades. Then BVa average base damage is 100*(1-0.3) = 70. 70 damage every 600 ms (no active blades). This is 117 DPS (which we will never have since it is zero active blades). If we will spin 1 blade, we will have 70*1.3 = 91 damage. Every 545,45454 ms ("hard" formula in google spreadshits below). This will be 166.8 DPS. Look the link to docs.google.com spreadshit with formulas, calculations and graph (didn't understand how to build graph properly in there, so i built it in other program lol) to let you understand what is going on. Overall BVa is better for bosses (almost 20 stacks) and BVb is better for clearing (3-12 stacks).
Extra: Pathfinder BV and Flask on Crit mechanics?
BVa 5 hits in second (on max 20 stacks) vs 20 hits with BVb. Obviously this is x4 less hits and x4 less crits for... i would say "flask point". Also patch 2.5.0 added new mechanic of crits. You may restore only 1 flask point every 200 ms on crit. Due to new BV you will have same 200ms hit rate (only on max 20 stacks) and you will want 100% crit chance to generate 5 flask points every second (that's a dream to squeeze all the possibilities). So we will have: You generate only 1 flask point on crit (Master Surgeon) and then you can't get any until 200 ms will expire. That would be 5 flask points per second if all your hits will crit. I don't know about how will charges be distributed among flask but i think 1-2-3-4-5-1-2... and so on. This will mean you will have one flask point on each flask per second with max stacks of BV with 100% crit. That's it. Before 2.5.0 flask on crit worked much better: you will get flask point for EVERY flask on crit, but with 10% chance. Next, let's calculate that in comparison BVa and BVb before and after patch. We have active blades on BVa and BVb. 5 hits vs 20 hits per second. We have 50% chance to crit (no RNG). We also have old Master Surgeon with 10% chance to get flask point vs 100% (in 2.5.0). We will have: 2.5.0 flask points = 5 hits * 0.5 crit chance * 1 second * 1 chance to get flask point on crit = 2.5 flask points per second before 2.5.0 flask charges = 20 hits * 0.5 crit chance * 1 second * 0.10 chance to get flask point * 5 multiplier (so points will be applied to EACH flask) = 5 flask points per second. So overall 2.5 flask points vs 5 flask points. Yes, i think new Pathfinder BV is nerfed x2 times with flask points and that's the end for it about flask generations. P.S.: "Flask Points" i used before means that you got status "Got Flask Charge" without any multipliers to amount of these charges. Conclusion: 1. BVa at 20 active blades does 5 hits/sec vs BVb 20 hits/sec -> 4 times lower hit frequency on 20 stacks. 2. BVa at stacks 1,2 and 13+ active blades showing better DPS than BVb -> better boss killer and might be worse at map clearing (with enough dps you clear anyway faster, so you will not notice that). 3. As for Assassin build which depends on 10% chance to get power charge on non-crit BVa is much worse (from p.1) by x4 times at 20 stacks. -> Assassin might have hard time to keep power charges always up. P.S.: English is not my native, so i wrote many words in sentences (like in my native language). Let me know if you haven't understand something or so in comments. Any mistakes? Write below also Last edited by AMalleus on Dec 7, 2016, 12:31:27 PM Last bumped on Dec 7, 2016, 10:02:45 AM
| |
" When did they buff it to 15%? Iirc it was always 10%, my atlas of worlds skill tree planner also shows 10%, did they really buff Master Surgeon during Essence league? With 10% proc chance the flask charge generation nerf would go down to "only" being half. | |
" must be mistake. didn't read this passive many times | |
|
Just wanted to know whether you know there was some change to it during atlas. The patch notes listed it as buffed to 100% from 15% and I was really surprised about that 15% there. Maybe they buffed it to 15% frist in 2.5 patch, but changed it to 100% in the "final" (patchnote) version?
| |
|
Where do you get that it deal's 30% more damage for each stack? The Gem say's it deals 30% increased damage for each blade, which should be additive with the increase damage from gear and other passive points. So the effective Damage for the new Blade Vortex is significantly lower then before.
I would be thankfull if anyone could clarify if the increase damage from the blade vortex stacks are additive or multiplicative with increase damage from the Passive tree and gear. Last edited by maulepan on Dec 5, 2016, 10:49:38 AM
| |
" you are not right. this 30% damage increase works as MORE damage. it is calculated before affection of passives from tree (like phys damage and spell damage). so if you will have 100% phys and 70% spell damage from tree and you will spin some blades, it will be calculated like that (let's say 10 blades and base damage is 100): " and after these calculations, passives from your tree will be applies. 400 damage * (1 + 1 + 0.7) = 1080 damage from blade. I may say you some analogy. Weapons have mod #% increased physical damage - firstly this is applied to weapon. and after that, this weapon will get all your passives from trees. UPD: you may also test your BV ingame. i have 31.6 tooltip dps with 0 blades. i spinned one blade, my dps becamse 41,4. 2 = 52.3 ---> 52.3/31.6 = 1.6 multiplicative; 41.4/ 31.6=1.3 multiplicative. Last edited by AMalleus on Dec 5, 2016, 11:54:16 AM
| |
|
Wall of Text...
There was also a calculation about the damage and dps old vs new: Link to Google Docs Short version of changes: Before 2.5. each stack of that skill could hit. Result: 20 hits After 2.5. only maximal 5 hits on 20 stacks. Dps is higher at 14 blades and up Last edited by SiegfriedXX on Dec 7, 2016, 6:00:06 AM
|
|
" no even any formulas of how it was calculated in google docs. what else to add instead of text then? lol |
