CB Frost Wall Cooldown: Why?
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I'd like a GGG employee to explain exactly why they gave Frost Wall a 5 second cooldown.
Frost Wall was already one of the least used skills in the game, and giving it a cooldown will only make this worse. Full disclosure, I'm partly concerned because this change dismantles my main's build that I've been having fun with since 1.3, and that many other players have also been enjoying (found in my sig). But I am also concerned because there doesn't seem to be anyone who benefits from this change. Frost Wall was given a damage buff, but: 1. It has always been a utility spell, so its damage was never the point 2. The unavoidable 5 second cooldown immediately hampers its potential as a DPS skill Most every response I've seen to this change has been either negative (it destroys a fun build) or confused (the changes don't seem to improve frost wall or benefit anyone, so what's the point). Ideally I think there should be some way to bypass the cooldown, ala Cold Snap (or have the change reverted). I think there is a great opportunity here to change Frost Wall such that it is useful for many builds, including KB CoC, but the current iteration seems both harmful to some builds and of dubious usefulness overall. To reiterate, I'd like a GGG employee to explain exactly why they made this change. Thanks! | |
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You know its probably the way it works with kinetic blast that got it nerfed right? But with the cool down its had its duration increased, so with an increased duration gem it might actually be worth using as a manually casted defense.
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It comes as a surprise that they've tweaked how frost walls work with kinetic blast?
Cheer up though, kinetic blast is perfectly fine without frost wall as long as you've got power siphon set up. And it could have been a far more painful nerf (EB...) | |
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So we're trying out greatly increased duration, length, and a shorter cast time on Frost Wall, and giving it a multi-stack cooldown. I was actually buffing the total length a little more and reviewing the cooldown when Bex pointed out this question to me!
The real intent of the change is to push the utility use of Frost Wall without taking away from DPS time too heavily. Letting you quickly build a fortress from walls for better battlefield control is something we want to try out, and see if it better pushes the skill towards its original design intent. Having power charges override the cooldown is definitely an option, as it's a notable opportunity cost to pay. I might try that out! Thanks for the feedback! Balance & Design
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Thanks so much for your quick response (and to Bex for forwarding it along).
I'm glad to hear that you're looking at different ways to increase Frost Wall's usefulness. I think all the changes you listed above are great for self-casting (compared to the current CB version). While I feel like I've gained insight into how you want the skill to work, and what ideas you have to improve it in that direction, I'm still wondering what the reason for the addition of a cooldown was in the first place. A cooldown does not increase the skill's utility, it only decreases it. Is the cooldown intended to counteract the very large skill damage increase? Is it to counteract builds which use Frost Wall with Cast on Crit? If it's the former:
Spoiler
I can only assume that Frost Wall was given a huge damage increase in order to make it more palatable to cast (relative to using your DPS skill). In order to balance this you gave Frost Wall a cooldown, otherwise it would become a main DPS skill and not a utility skill. I think the reasoning behind the damage buff in this case is inherently flawed.
Balancing Frost Wall by buffing its damage mixes different skill goals/balancing types and thus messes with its overall balance: Buffing Frost Wall's damage will never increase or fix its intended utility, it is only a band-aid to make the skill less unattractive. Furthermore, there is no truly balanced amount of damage it can deal. It will either do too little to be worth linking to damage supports, and thus remain unattractive with regards to its damage dealt, or deal too much, and become a converted burn prolif spell that is used for damage, not utility. The cooldown, which is intended to regulate Frost Wall's DPS output, indiscriminately regulates Frost Wall's utility too (by limiting how many walls you can cast). This clearly shows how the damage buff is negatively affecting the skill's original intended purpose. The damage buff overcomplicates the balancing process for the skill by tying in too many unrelated factors to be balanced by one mechanism (cooldown). In the end it seems clear to me that this skill never needed a damage buff. Frost Wall (if intended as a utility spell) shouldn't need to do competitive damage (or any damage) per cast to make it worth casting; it should be worth casting on its own, as a utility skill. To that end I think, in addition to the changes you mentioned, you should buff Frost Wall by: making it create chilled ground in a radius around it, or giving it a separate slowing "aura", or giving it a high freeze chance a la Freeze Mine, or giving monsters it hits an increased chance to be frozen by subsequent cold damage. All these effects are complementary to the "battlefield control" theme and enhance its utility. I really think you should revise the damage buff because it seems to be causing more issues than it is fixing. If it's the latter, I can only hope you add some balanced way to bypass the cooldown. | |
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The cooldown was not for damage, the damage was simply a result of the skill having a cooldonw. The real reason for adding a cooldown was simply to allow the skill have a much longer duration, further rewarding handcasting while preventing creating a massive blocking area and constant pushback when used with Spell Totems or when spammed.
I'm trying out the power charge cooldown override at the moment, so we'll see how that turns out. Balance & Design
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frost wall is one of these gems that is in general worthless but shines in one combo
this is the Kinetic Blast + Frost Wall combo cooldown ruins it or rather: brings it to typical power level. different story is - would anyone use Frost Wall without KB? even with new stats? doubtfull. that would require TOTAL meta and mechanic shift: less monsters, WAY more dangerous monsters. current mechanic is: kill it before it kills you and Frost Wall has no place in such game (same applies to Chance to Flee) | |
"I use it in a cast when stunned set-up right now to keep enemies away from me. If the duration is long enough I'd have no problems self casting it. Hell I didn't even know about the KB thing until yesterday. Last edited by Telzen on May 4, 2015, 2:23:39 AM
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frost wall spam in pvp was so idiotic , thx for fixing this GGG cd is good now
100lvl mele pvp QUIT
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" Interesting to know, sorry for jumping to conclusions! Well, thanks for responding and working so hard on this and many other things :) I'll be looking forward to how it develops over CB and into release. |
