Allow Vaal skills to be used without souls

Perhaps allow Vaal skills to use >100% mana if there aren't enough souls stored. Maybe the mana % decreases for each soul captured.

Reasoning:
1. Provides some sort of benefit to the under-utilised reduced mana nodes/gem (for non-auras).
2. Provides builds (that prepare for it) an alternative to auras. Because right now, if you're not BM, there's very little point in NOT having at least one aura.
3. Provides an alternative to capturing souls. Personally, in an ARPG, I cannot stand this mechanic. I know I'm killing stuff pretty much all the time, but what if I come across some retarded boss when there aren't any spare souls around? I can't play strategically, dodging around until I have enough mana or the skill cools down. I just have to not use the skill.
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Trust me that would break the game. Literally. Just imagine what parties would be like when 5 people Vaal spark over and over again.
Not gonna happen. Suggestions like these make me so glad players dont make balance decisions.
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BearCares wrote:
Trust me that would break the game. Literally. Just imagine what parties would be like when 5 people Vaal spark over and over again.

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Not gonna happen. Suggestions like these make me so glad players dont make balance decisions.

Well in their current state, Vaal gems are extremely niche. I'm only throwing suggestions out there, but if this one is really that bad, I'd love to hear an alternative.

Besides, it seems to be at least on GGG's radar. From the Developer Q&A Thread:
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Can we ever expect to see vaal skills revamped and make less cumbersome and mostly ignored?

Yes.
Rebalance the vaal gems that are under used. There are quite a few that are fine the way they are such as detonate dead, cyclone, storm call, haste, discipline, summon skeletons, well those are the ones I have experience with.
There could be a keystone that augments Vaal Skills and/or souls in some way... but you might want to revisit the drawing board.

Similarly, unique items could have some effect.

I think in the hall of Grandmasters, that the grandmasters acquire souls over time, but I'm not particularly sure what or how I'd change Vaal skills.


I think it would be funny if you could make someone forced into only using Vaal Skills, but this doesn't really do it:

- 100% more Vaal Skill Damage
- 75% less non-Vaal Skill Damage
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There could be a keystone that augments Vaal Skills and/or souls in some way... but you might want to revisit the drawing board.

Similarly, unique items could have some effect.

I think in the hall of Grandmasters, that the grandmasters acquire souls over time, but I'm not particularly sure what or how I'd change Vaal skills.


I think it would be funny if you could make someone forced into only using Vaal Skills, but this doesn't really do it:

- 100% more Vaal Skill Damage
- 75% less non-Vaal Skill Damage


You cant make a keystone or a unique for them, those would be mandatory and since vaal gems are better than their normal version with the only "problem" people have is that they gotta charge them every change has to be on the gems and how they work and not via any other means.
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There could be a keystone that augments Vaal Skills and/or souls in some way... but you might want to revisit the drawing board.

Similarly, unique items could have some effect.

I think in the hall of Grandmasters, that the grandmasters acquire souls over time, but I'm not particularly sure what or how I'd change Vaal skills.


I think it would be funny if you could make someone forced into only using Vaal Skills, but this doesn't really do it:

- 100% more Vaal Skill Damage
- 75% less non-Vaal Skill Damage


You cant make a keystone or a unique for them, those would be mandatory and since vaal gems are better than their normal version with the only "problem" people have is that they gotta charge them every change has to be on the gems and how they work and not via any other means.


You're right and your wrong. Yes, Vaal Skills are intended like an Ultimate. And, yes, any pie in the sky suggestion of a change isn't likely to happen...

But the reason why is actually also for another additional reason. GGG has suggested we'll likely, some day in the future, uncover other types of skills from other lost and/or as of yet unmet civilizations.

So, really, a big part of why Vaal Skills can't be augmented too much is because of the desire to leave room for other distinct mechanics for other types of Ultimate skills that will likely have nothing to do with souls.

But that doesn't mean that no items and no passives can ever be allowed to augment Vaal Skills in any way. It just means that Vaal Skills are about souls, and that part isn't going to change about Vaal Skills.

But they could, in theory make an item that gives +2 Vaal Gem levels, and lets pretend gives you Onslaught for 5 seconds on using a Vaal skill if they feel like it. Certainly, something that that could be possible. And as such, similar things could also be possible.




Last edited by DragonsProphecy on Mar 27, 2015, 11:59:09 AM
What needs to change about Vaal Gems is HOW to acquire the damn souls.

On one hand, it makes sense that Vaal Skills should never be available off the bat when you start a map - you need to "earn" the right to use them.
They should be a finisher of sorts.

On the other hand, ONLY building them from kills is terrible design.

By default, they should build (at a smaller rate) from most offensive actions (on cast, on attack, when an attack/spell "collides" with you).
Then, there should be a series of modifiers (On Kill, On Crit, Per Hit, When Hit, When Crit, On Evade/Dodge, On Block) - some baseline, some found in passive nodes, others in gear - that amplify/change how your build souls.

Examples of Soul-related Notable/Keystone effects:
1 - Cruelty - X% More Soul Generation, but you only generate souls from Critical Strikes.
2 - Serenity - Generate X Souls for every Y% Energy Shield you recover. You cannot generate Souls in any other way.
3 - Duel - X% More Soul Generation, but you do not generate Souls if you hit more than one enemy with a single skill.
4 - Guts - X% More Soul Generation, but you do not generate Souls from enemies more than Y yards away from you.
Forum Warrior - Why are you creating a thread about this subject? Use Search!
Also Forum Warrior - Nice necro.
Last edited by Nurvus on Mar 27, 2015, 7:18:42 PM
All of your ideas... I don't like them.

The only way I'd accept using a Vaal skill without souls was if the skill would no longer truly be under your control. Meaning Vaal Skeletons would be just as likely to attack you as to attack your enemies, Vaal Haste buffs enemies as much as it buffs you, Vaal Spark can friendly-fire and kill you, Vaal Immortal Call prevents damage to you and damage from you, etc.

Oh, and despite your lack of control over the skill, use would still reset souls down to zero.
When Stephen Colbert was killed by HYDRA's Project Insight in 2014, the comedy world lost a hero. Since his life model decoy isn't up to the task, please do not mistake my performance as political discussion. I'm just doing what Steve would have wanted.
Last edited by ScrotieMcB on Mar 27, 2015, 5:09:07 PM

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