Flame Totem with Three Dragons do not proc HoT on kill effect

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Mark_GGG wrote:

Herald of Thunder does not trigger on totem kills - this is intentional. You have the buff on you, not the totem, and only the thing with the herald buff on it can trigger the effect by killing shocked enemies.
You can very occasionally trigger it if a totem ignites an enemy and the ignite kills them. Since the totem might not exist any more when the ignite expires, that kill is assigned directly to you.

Interesting, thanks for the insight :)

I find this confusing. When I apply a HoT, my tooltip for Flame Totem changes to reflect what I assume is the additional lightning damage that HoT is adding to 'me.' Are the Flame Totems actually doing additional lightning damage? And if so, is it because the Flame Totem is my spell? If those two are indeed the case, that seems that sets up a double standard with Totems. I get that they are not considered minions, and therefore benefit from things like your power and frenzy charges, and as such, act in a way that they are supported spells. Someone explained it to me that HoT says "when you kill..." and that the Totem is not me, but the Totem is my spell. If I were to kill something shocked with an Arc, HoT would proc because it's my spell. It seems like Totems are treated like spells up to an unexplained line in the sand, and I feel left to guess as to what does and does not work with them.

A similar situation with auras occurs. I wear an aura, and the Totem gains the benefit (or I assume this because the tooltip reflects that). But if I walk too far away the Totem loses the benefit as though it were its own entity and exists outside of the Aura's radius. However, if I link Generosity to the aura, the Totem doesn't receive any effect, I assume because it's now being treated as "my spell" and since I'm not covered by the aura due to generosity, neither is the Totem. So the Totem is my spell when it comes to Generosity and isn't my spell when it comes to range of aura. I understand that this is 'intended' but I don't understand the reasoning for why it's intended, and I can't for the life of me figure out where the line is that separates Totems as acting as not my spells and as my spells, particularly when it seems the same buff gem defines it as both at the same time.

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Mark_GGG wrote:

Totems never are your spells. They are separate entities. They cast your spells. This is an important distinction.

When you use herald of thunder, it puts a buff on you, and not on the totem, that adds lightning damage to your spells. Since the totem is casting your spell, that spell has the lightning damage.
When the totem kills a thing, your totem killed a thing, not you. Your totem does not have a herald on thunder buff on it, and thus cannot trigger herald of thunder's on-kill effect.

You appear somewhat confused on how auras work with totems.

if a shocked mob dies to an ignite caused by a totem crit rather than the hit from the totem, does it trigger the Herald of Thunder on kill effect?


edit: that would require the player to use Heral of Ice, ofc

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ShinningWizard wrote:

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Mark_GGG wrote:

Totems never are your spells. They are separate entities. They cast your spells. This is an important distinction.

When you use herald of thunder, it puts a buff on you, and not on the totem, that adds lightning damage to your spells. Since the totem is casting your spell, that spell has the lightning damage.
When the totem kills a thing, your totem killed a thing, not you. Your totem does not have a herald on thunder buff on it, and thus cannot trigger herald of thunder's on-kill effect.

You appear somewhat confused on how auras work with totems.

if a shocked mob dies to an ignite caused by a totem crit rather than the hit from the totem, does it trigger the Herald of Thunder on kill effect?


edit: that would require the player to use Heral of Ice, ofc

Read what was said. If the totem expires ("dies") before the monster dies, then the kill gets assigned to you. Otherwise, as long as the totem is up it gets credited with kill.

I've even had HoT triggers when I've been double totem spec... where the exile can't to damage directly... and yet HoT still goes off (doing 0 damage, thus not much use outside of breaking crates). If you're using 3 dragons, you're not igniting mobs anymore, which is why it appears to have stopped completely.

As Mark from GGG said - the creature needs to die from the ignite for it to trigger, but I don't believe the totem has to be dead - it's happened while the totems are still alive for me (i swear... but that character just got wiped, so rip me being able to prove it)

Question: If totem / trap kills don't count for 'On Kill' or 'when you kill' effects.
Why do they count for Southbound's 'Your hits can only kill frozen enemies'?
It says 'your hits'. Not 'Your, your totem's and your trap's hits'.

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Vipermagi wrote:

Because Totems also benefit from your Increased Spell Damage and shit like that.

Thats a.. weird argument. If that makes them count for 'your hits' then why doesn't it also make them count for 'your kills'? Either stuff your totems do counts as something you're doing, or they don't. It seems inconsistent that for some effects they count as '-you- did something' and for others they don't. Or Southbound Gloves are the only exception and they forgot to specify that in the wording.